To think a 9/10 yo should be able to add 8+7 in their head?

[WittiestUsernameEver]

Am I missing something?

A few kids I've been with around 9-10 (yr 5) have struggled with what I'd consider simple mental arithmetic? So one definitely couldn't do 8+7, another struggled with 5+9, and the third child had a similar question.

Am I expecting too much? Is it the way maths is taught these days makes it harder somehow ? Don't they have to do this very much? I'm genuinely surprised.

Can’t do it or can’t do it quickly? I genuinely have issues doing 8+7 in my head quickly and often count on my fingers. I have a 1st degree and a masters so am certainly not stupid. Peoples brains work in different ways.

There's no shame put on kids here.

It was an observation of the peers I know, most likely explained by missed education from COVID as it turns out.

I tend to think this is something children currently and within the last decade/15 years (including covid years) are much better at than previous generations. I think maths teaching is far better.

Maybe you need a bigger cohort to test your theory on?

I do however think (and think this has been studied in the Uk), there’s a gap between the not so bad but not perfect mental arithmetic of my generation (49) and the 35-45 year group below, before it gets better again.

YR and Y2, both can do that in their head.

Their mental maths seems really quick and confident, the way they've been taught is to get to 10 and add the remainder, so in their heads the sums would turn from 8+7 to 10+5, or 9+5 would become 10+4.

Is this not just how most people would do it without being taught? Or 8+7 as double 7 plus one/double 8 minus one?

Most children need to be taught this explicitly, and will need an awful lot of practise to be able to do it reliably. Some will grasp it quickly and a few may work it out thensleves, as with all learning.

Oh OK, I didn't know what was taught as I had a 1-1 teaching assistant at that age. I don't remember any maths I was actually taught until year two when we did the formal two and three digit sums. The mental maths I just knew like my DS and DN.

Some people do that when they have a grasp of functional maths, either taught or innate.

Some people learn number facts but can't conceptualise them in order to apply the pattern to problems they don't know. So they'll know 8+7 but won't know 18+7 and can't apply the pattern mentally to work it out because 8 and 18 are completely different to them.

I’ve got an old style O level B in Maths and did (and passed) the first year of public sector accountancy exams. I can’t do it without running it over my fingers. I have dyscalculia. Maybe the child does.

Some people learn number facts but can't conceptualise them in order to apply the pattern to problems they don't know. So they'll know 8+7 but won't know 18+7 and can't apply the pattern mentally to work it out because 8 and 18 are completely different to them.

Is this dyscalculia? DN can do things like 998+7.

It varies in presentation. I can’t remember or manipulate numbers, work out what time it will be in, say an hour and 35 mins, estimate totals or measure things. I understand maths, I can tell you what sum to do, I just can’t do the sum without a calculator. And since I always have one with me on my phone this doesn’t seem like too much of an issue.
Edit: as far as the example sums are concerned, (8+7 and 18+7) it had never occurred to me that there was a concept there to grasp. Two totally different sums.

The average child can.

But that means some cannot. For all sorts of reasons including Dyscalculia

Also some kids don't like performing in public or being out on the spot.

It's 3 different children, from 3 different walk of life and schools etc. they weren't "put on the spot" or anything like that.

Incredibly unlikely they're all dyscalclic. No signs otherwise etc through all kids.

It's something else. COVID. Is the something else.

If they were asked it as a mental arithmetic question they were put on the spot. I panic and am even worse than usual.

Yes, I taught my 4yr old old to add by playing ludo with her (it wasn’t the reason we were playing but it was a side benefit) so yeah by then I would expect her to be able to recall basic addition. Once she can add the numbers confidently I’m going to chuck in a 3rd dice.