To think this is unprofessional?

[PigeonEgg]

Recently taken on a new contract, I'm a freelancer. It's a small one, only a few hours a week.

I sent my latest invoice to the client/boss and he replied "Invoice received, I'll pay it ASAP, I'm waiting on a few other payments to come in."

This has shaken my trust in the client, it's unprofessional, why not just say 'Thanks I'll get that paid ASAP."

In case it's relevant, the amount is less than £300.

If he doesn't have an easily accessible pot for payments for such low amounts, it makes me feel uneasy.

If you were an employee you would be paid monthly. Why would you be at financial risk as a freelance being paid at the end of the month?

It might be industry specific but for all the PLCs I’ve worked for getting an invoice paid outside our normal terms required sign off by the CFO and was such an enormous issue that no one ever used a freelance with those terms more than once!

I've never heard of payment within 5 days - I think it's unrealistic, so maybe he's panicking. I put 14 days and then start sending reminders until charging interest after 30 days.

I'm not sure legally you can start charging interest until it's over 30 days, can you?

I read it as he meant he was waiting for some more invoices to come in and he’d pay them all together. I’m probably totally wrong though!

28 days is usual terms for all the free lancers in my business too.

I read it differently, that he wasn’t going to log into his internet bank account until he had notification that other people had paid him. Then he would pay you, and check the other payments had gone in. I thought he meant he was going to do all his financial admin at the same time.

DH and I have both been freelance for over 10 years. No company in either of our professions (which are totally different) would ever agree a contract which stated that they would pay within 5 days – you just wouldn't get the work on those terms.

That said, @PigeonEgg if he did agree it and you have that in writing, he should abide by the terms of the contract. It may just be his style of communicating, so I wouldn't jump to a red flag, but I would definitely remind him of the terms of your invoice. How stroppily you do this probably depends on how much you want/need to work for him again!

It's usual in my line of freelance work over the past couple of decades; usually my invoices are paid within 24 hours and I rarely need to chase.

It's not the timescale that's the issue, many are missing the point - even if my terms gave a full year for payment, saying essentially you can't afford to pay for work you've already benefitted from until you get paid, is unprofessional - it gives an air of uncertainty and an impression the business isn't doing well!

In which case, don't hire someone.

This is it, I'd be mortified to make it obvious cash was low. I can only think that he lacks awareness of what he's implying?!

I don’t work on spec—I get paid the day of service. I don’t see why I would wait for two to four weeks?

I actually think this is quite normal.
I know in my dads business, he sometimes has to chase people for payments so he can pay the suppliers etc. It's not that the business doesn't have or make money. It's been going well for over 20 years. Just, certain things are budgeted to cover other things.

It might be a red flag but it might be genuine!

That's the point - I'm taking it as genuine, and that's a concern.

If your dad knew he had a heavy month of bills coming out then I'm sure he'd be professional and think twice about hiring extra staff and making the month's cashflow even tighter.

You shouldn't hire someone if you haven't got the cashflow to pay them, whatever the timeframe.

It's irresponsible.

If it makes you feel uneasy and you think it's unprofessional, then don't work for him again. There are a few companies/individuals in my field who pay late or quibble over hours worked or how much extra I did/didn't have to do, I just don't work for them. It's one of the advantages of being freelance, right?

You're not actually asking us whether you think you are being unreasonable, you've already decided you're not, so go with that.

Usually freelancers give 28 days and then interest is payable. As employees people are paid a month in arrears, so less than 28 days is a bit odd.

It sounds like his cash flow is unsteady – always a bit of a worry.

As an aside, as someone who regularly works with freelancers, they always have a ‘paid within 5/10/15 days’ stipulation, but our company policy is paid within 28 days. So 🤷‍♀️

I read it like, he'll wait for more to come in and then pay all invoices together sort of thing. I didn't even know what you meant at first and had to re-read it! It could be meant either way I suppose!

As a freelancer, my payment terms are within 28 days. However, companies always have their own - some have payment runs every Friday so mine will be the Friday after the 28 days is up, one is always the last working day of the month so annoyingly can be nearly 4 weeks later sometimes.

not the point, but it was interesting for me to read how it varied company to company!

i agree - I wouldn’t give the impression of cash flow difficulties to a freelancer!

As far as I'm aware anything under 28 days is unenforcible in law, I supply the NHS, it doesn't matter what you put on the invoice, it gets paid roughly a month later.

OK, just looked it up, Payment Terms Act 2017, 30 days is the default limit unless parties have agreed different terms.

The emphasis is on agreement, it can't be one way, so you could have on your quotation "payment to be within 5 days of delivery date" and then "acceptance of this quotation means you agree to the terms set forth herein"

Just sticking 5 days, 7 days, 10 days on the invoice means nothing unless you have some sort of agreement from the payee

Interestingly, under the 2017 act, even if reduced terms are agreed, you have no actual recourse to chase the debt or add interest until the 30 days have elapsed - so in reality the customer can take 30 days regardless.

He might be annoyed at the 5 days and it is his way of pointing out that it is rather shorter time than normal. As someone who has to pay a lot of invoices, 5 days is really short and would irritate me.

Five days is bizarre, we wouldn’t engage with anyone looking for payment that quickly. The admin is a pita.

i would also read the email as meaning it will be paid next time he is doing some financial admin, ie when he has a number of invoices to pay or incoming payments to reconcile.

no half decent sized business is going to deal with a single invoice.

I think you're totally unrealistic. How long have you been self employed? I've been freelance for well over a decade, and 30 days (not even from delivery, but from invoice) is standard in my industry and has been since forever.
I have a really good client who's also a very good friend (and pays excellent rates) and often he will be waiting in a chain for several big payments to come through so he can pay his freelancers for a job, it happens.
Normally I barely notice when someone pays me as my cash flow is steady.
Your client could flip it around and say what kind of successful freelancer has such poor cash flow they're chomping at the bit for a three figure invoice just days after delivering.

Imagine if your client has a dozen or so freelancers on various projects: do you expect them to take an hour out here and there on a mish mash of days to process invoices or make payments? No, of course they're going to wait and deal with them all at the end/beginning of month, it just makes logistical.sense. Even for yourself: better to gather all your invoices at end of month and get in the zone.

I don't understand why you care so much?! Why would he be "mortified"? Times are tough right now, maybe cash flow isn't as smooth as it once was for many, why is that so humiliating to admit?
You are "just" a freelancer, why should he be embarrassed for you to know this? Many of my clients have evolved into friends over the years and I know about their lives, I know when times are tough. Actually it makes me more confident that I will be paid, not less. A non payer would just play dead.

That was the worst part of childminder! Even when they got child tax credits which is specifically for the child care!!

Yes, an unsteady cash flow is not a good impression to give, is it!