Sanity check please - was I 'devaluing her art' or is this seller a headcase?

[catPA]

I bought some items from an online artist based in Canada. The first purchase was for just under £200 and I paid about £45 in customs tax for that. Fine.

After my first purchase (but while it was still in transit), I looked at her Instagram and the seller had done various posts about how her business is struggling to survive, 'artist poverty is real', '30% off with code 'help me pay my electric bill' etc. I thought all this seemed a bit 'unusual,' (also possibly a bit 'tone deaf' as she lives in a huge, beautiful house by the sea and does her art full time so she can be a SAHM - not a choice many women could make)! But I thought fair enough, she's being honest; I genuinely love her art and good for her living her dream. I wanted to support her business if I could.

So I bought another item for £280 which had previously been listed at about £450 (I think). She was doing a sale across all her work.

I couldn't have afforded it at £450 and also the higher customs tax would have been a bit much for me, on balance.

Anyway, both packages didn't arrive for ages and it turned out they were being held at the post office, pending customs charges. The first package, as I said, required a £45 customs tax payment. However, the second package, required a customs tax payment of £95! I asked how that could be possible, when I had paid £280 for the item. Then I saw that the unexpectedly high customs tax was because the seller had stated the value of goods as £450 (or the equivalent in Canadian dollars).

I messaged the seller and told her that surely it's standard practice to state the actual transaction price on a package for customs purposes.

Thst was it. She was straight into "What do you expect me to do?" etc. Then went into the woe-is-me 'artist poverty is real' and how could I be devaluing her art in this way. She got very personalised very quickly. She said she will never devalue her work again because I had done that for her! She said I was essentially asking her to defraud customs. She basically said she wished she had never sold me anything because I don't value her art!

Ffs I had spent over £600 on it (with the tax). I was talking about labelling for customs tax - I believe it should be the transaction amount stated, not some previous price. How is that in my control?

In summary, she became very unprofessional with me and then blocked me.

I had left her a really positive comment on Instagram as well - before all this!

Apologies for the length.

WIBU?

Also, should I leave her a review stating my experience?

Well, to be brutal, artists don’t have to do it for their main living. They could get a ‘proper’ job and paint in their spare time. I’ve nothing against artists per se but they’re not doctors are they? If they’re not making a living out of it then have it as a hobby.

I absolutely agree with you. I am not sure why you are getting bashed on here. But then again, I am biased as I am an artist so I can sign my name after your every word.
Of course art is what I love but running an art business is not what I would call pleasurable. And, in fact, 90% of my time is spend marketing, selling, writing copy, doing my accounting, chasing post office etc. 10% is spend on actually making art.
The reason I have a second job is because I enjoy having work dumped on me by admin who handles everything else around my workload. I get up, open my laptop and get on with the job. Pure bliss and I get paid for the pleasure.
Now, I appreciate, not many people feel this way about their employment and they may well be swayed by the myth of artist in their studio doing work they love. Running a small creative business couldn't be further from this unless you are making enough money to employ someone doing admin. But the issue is that customers often feel that prancing around the studio is exactly what I do all day and why should they pay me for enjoying my time doing it. Which is why I have to sadly refuse work coming my way when the proposed compensation does not even approach industry standard.
No, nobody owes me anything but my art has value as a product of my business, a value that was carefully calculated with costs and profit margins in mind, the product that was optimised so that my outgoings and desired profit margin does not exceed what market can handle. And if someone isn't wiling to pay that, they are not my target customer.
None of this is said to defend the artist in question. In fact, I think her conduct is indefensible. And she seems like a pretty clueless business owner to boot.

Artist here. She’s devalued her own work by putting it on sale on the first place. Fine to sell work at a small percentage below gallery asking price but usually you would keep that private and between regular customers. How is she going to get the higher price for her other works now she has sold for the lower one.

She’s clearly in the wrong for putting the higher price on the customs form. They don’t give a monkey’s about her reputation, they just need their percentage paid. If she wanted to give you a receipt for the the higher amount in case of accident to the work, so you could claim on your insurance so you could buy a similar piece at the full price, then she should have done that separately. If she wanted to put the higher price on the customs form in case she needed to claim if the work went missing then she is in the wrong as she didn’t receive that amount.

I would put something on her Insta warning other overseas people. It’s not fair to get an unexpected cost. It sours the whole transaction, which it has for you.

Can you tell I’m hormonal? 😂😂😂

She sounds insufferable.

I had a similar experience where I commissioned an illustrator to do a family scene. Tweaks to the illustration were included in the price. Somewhere along the way she lost interest in the project and started dragging her feet, and I found myself having to chase her for incredibly minor but important details, and her complaining. I eventually accepted the illustration as it was as I couldn't keep dealing with this person, and I now can't even look at it as it reminds me of how aggravating it was dealing with her.

It doesn’t sound to me as if this woman sells via a gallery, just her Instagram.

@Catza Agreed... what constantly baffles me is that art is always at the front of the queue being bashed but it is no different from any other commodity - fashion, home furnishings, fancy food, etc.

To someone making designer home furnishings, for example, people don't say 'oh well you had a lovely time making that sofa so I won't pay you for it because you had a nice time!'

Or fashion, which people pay silly money for. Or movies - look at Hollywood!

If we want to talk about overpaid artists, let's talk about Hollywood actors, not the small business owner doing oil paintings in their home studio.

There is something about people making a living from painting that just seems to rile people up, and I don't know why - it's no different to anything else that is not essential but adds value to people's lives.

(Sorry for going completely off-piste from the OP! - I've said my soapbox piece now, I'll step down).

She's batshit. You haven't devalued anything. You wanted to pay the correct amount of tax for the price of the item.

Sadly deal with this from American family. Get a parcel from the US and am told to pay £30 customs and then it's tea towels or something 🙁.

@catPA I don't know if it's the same in the UK but in Ireland you can query the charge with the post office and send them the receipt of what you paid and they will fix the charge.

Well the vast majority of artists do also have part time jobs in related or unrelated fields.

This doesn't mean that is their 'proper job' and their art is just some kind of silly hobby. It's simply a result of how undervalued the arts are in our society.

What is ironic is that people love art - they want it on their walls - they want to see it in galleries and museums and books and movies and in magazines and on products that they buy. But so many think that being an artist is not a 'proper job' despite the fact that art is everywhere. People need and demand it, but they don't value it.

Making good, saleable art that people want to commission and buy is not easy, and it's not something you can just do in your spare time.

Society is so messed up in the way it devalues and dismisses art that brings joy and meaning to people's lives.

The OP didn't devalue the art. The artist put the artwork on sale as it presumably hadn't sold at the original price. The value of the artwork is the price people are prepared to pay for it.
She should have filled in the customs form correctly with the value of the item - in this case the reduced price because that was how much it was worth and not the original price.
She sounds like she has lots of issues. And yes, I would write a review to warn others that they will end up having to pay the customs duties on the original price and not the sale price. What if she'd originally listed it as 2000 dollars and it ended up selling for 300 and then someone is expected to pay customs on 2000 dollars instead of 300 just because she claims her artwork was worth 2000 dollars. That's just not on.

Same principle though. You need to keep your prices stable or going up. Going down is never a good idea though private sales at a discount are another matter.

It’s can be quite elitist though. I mean most people can’t afford to have real art on their walls. I like some art and can enjoy some galleries. The most expensive art I have is a painting that cost £1,200 but that was strictly a one-off. I have a couple of pictures on my wall from a local artist I like but they are limited prints and not very expensive (maybe £40 a piece), which I had framed so I’m certainly not an under-appreciator of art in my own humble way.

It’s the fact this artist is pleading poverty and having a poor-me attitude, whilst living in a ‘Homes and Garden’ level house, I would find that annoying and entitled. As others have said, her attitude would put me right off having her work on my walls.

Just a little OT but I recently listened to a (quite old I think) radio comedy called Artists with the fab Vicki Pepperdine. Some artists might appreciate it, it was very enjoyable. 🙂

Surely there is no better indicator of the 'value' of the item than the price it was sold for

Entitled preciousness I believe.

You are right that a lot of work needs to be done to make the arts more accessible to everyone.

But suggesting that artists should sell their work for less is not the answer (not sure if you're suggesting that but that seems to be the implication) - they need to make a living like anyone else.

I mean, show me a wealthy artist and I'll show you 1000 wealthy people showing off their botox 'influencing' on social media, or some such bullshit.

My bugbear is that art is often targeted/ devalued like this when there are so many other vocations that bring less value to people's lives, but are somehow deemed more worthy.

Of course, I agree with you about this artist being ridiculous (as I've repeated many, many times).

Well, nobody has to do anything. A self-employed plumber cant get profit in his first week of setting up a business? It's just a hobby then. You obviously have never run a business if you think any company owner out there woke up on day two with 100k in their bank account and a full book of clients.
Every single thing you see, wear, use was designed by someone whom you consider not having a proper job. Every road sign, a print on your favourite pajamas, every book cover, every image on food packaging.. but no, it's not a proper job, apparently, and doesn't add value to society. And that's not even covering product designers and 3D artist who literally design everything from kitchen utensils to cars to assistive equipment.
Is a supermarket checkout person having a proper job? Let's face it, they are not doctors, are they...
The ignorance!

The value means the price that was paid. End of.

No, not implying they should sell for less at all, just that it’s not something most people can indulge in (unless they are buying cheaper art). It’s similar to designer clothes, most people can’t buy a Chanel or Hermes handbag so designers get most of their sales from perfume etc rather than the clothes.

Why did the artist sell at a lower price?

Rather aggressive and I’m not ignorant thank you.

So why is it a world famous thing that artists are ‘poor’ and they only ever make money when they’re dead? No one says that about plumbers!

She's cheeky . Definitely leave a review to warn potential overseas buyers of the customs duties etc and for them not to be caught out like you...

I had the same thing with a different US small business putting the “ original “ price rather than the actual (sale) price I had paid on the custom form so I had huge unexpected fees 😢

They don’t care - but they should as it means they’ve lost a regular customer (as in your case, I had bought a lot from them previously). Please leave a factual review OP - I wish I’d known ahead of time that some businesses put the amount they wish they had been paid on customs forms! 🤦‍♀️

She devalued it herself when she started selling it at sale prices. And if it’s art, the value is subjective anyway - as the seller she puts her own value on it for sale purposes.

I’ve had this situation when I’ve bought on EBay and Etsy. I bought a couple of things on EBay from a seller in the US, as they were offering a ‘coupon’ price which amounted to about a 40% discount. When the package arrived in the UK I had a card from Royal Mail to say that the item attracted a customs charge. I paid it and when the package arrived there was a customs sticker on on which the seller had stated the full price of the items which resulted in nearly double the customs charge.

The Etsy item was hand made jewellery from Canada - sold at sale prices, and the same thing happened. I got nowhere with either of the sellers and ended up contacting the selling platforms involved to ask what their policy is on this kind of thing. Predictably I got nowhere with EBay because their customer service is shite. Etsy replied to say that as far as they were concerned, the price charged by the seller should have been the price they quoted for customs purposes. They didn’t intervene with the seller so it made no difference on that occasion but if it happens again, at least there is some recourse.

I would contact the selling platform for comment and once you have that, leave a calm and factual review for the seller, explaining what happened, and their reaction, and include any response you receive from the platform itself.

Yes leave a bad review. Also, cancel or update positive review.