AIBU to feel annoyed about ‘free childcare’

[CoolMoose]

My 2yo has just started to receive the ‘free’ 15 hours. AIBU to feel like it’s such a joke?! He attends full time at nursery and our bill has reduced from £1600 a month to just shy of £1400 a month (£240 a month reduction). They only offer the funding stretched (you can’t just access the free childcare) and you have to pay for ‘add on’ costs. It’s £15 a day for food….a 2yo doesn’t eat that much, surely! In addition, you have to pay full fees for bank holiday closures.

I have an older child and this is definitely getting worse and worse for families even with extra government funding. When my older child was little I paid £550-600 a month for full time childcare without funding and about £150-200 a month with funding (10 years ago).

So me and the 4 and other child free women and other (not necessarily by choice) women and men I know without children should subsidise those who have children and complain about paying for nurseries of childminders?

I don’t think having children is a luxury that should be preserved for the wealthy but I do resent (have said I’m quite happy to subsidise to a certain extent) bankrolling parents who won’t pay for their childcare costs. I don’t think that’s unfair.

This has probably already been said (I can't be bothered to read 9 pages) - it should be called funded childcare, not "free". When we qualified there was only 15hrs available, and it was explained to us that it cost £5 ish pd to break even, and they got £4 in funding.
Given our DD went to a private setting, we weren't surprised about the extra costs added in so they made some profit.
Does it suck as a parent? Absolutely. But the govt should fund the hours properly.

Where I am 2 preschools (the "school hours" in community centre types) folded in the past year as the funding gap meant they could no longer pay staff/hall hire etc and because they were only open for the funded hours, they couldn't be "creative" in charging for extras.

Who is going to pay your pension if no one has any kids?

Where has anyone said they ‘won’t’ pay for childcare costs? I’m afraid you still need others in society to have children to continue the population and provide for the next elderly generation whether you choose not to/are unable to have children yourself.

I actually opted out of gov pension (SERPS) a few years ago, have a private pension plus own a few BTL properties with DB and DM so won’t be relying on a government pension.

The government should never have used the word 'free'. It is not, and has never been, free. Nurseries would close if they didn't find a way to fill the gap in funding - hence the consumables charges. A saving of £240 is pretty good really - this will double when your child turns 3.

Good for you. You’ll be alright then Jack 😉

Haha, of course you did.

Of course we need people to have children to continue the population and provide for the next generation, but as OP says most parents complain about the costs of childcare when it’s just a fact of life that the first few years of childcare are expensive.

As I said before I’m happy to subsidise (and have no choice in this) childcare via taxes but seriously as I said, what do I get back? Nothing. I’m fairly lucky as I’m not poor but I’ve got child free friends who are struggling financially with CoL crisis, one pays her DM’s care home fees with her sister and what help does she get? Others on ok salaries but not earning the mythical huge salaries a lot of MN gets paid, they get absolutely zilch if they quit their jobs.

When was this? Are you saying that because she never mentions costs, she had none? I expect things were very different then!

I really did! Do you want to see my financial statements?!

The SERPs opting out of government pensions was common when I was about 18/19 in my second job. A financial advisor came to our offices and advised this. I’ve paid into a private pension most of my life so just got used to this and also have pensions from various jobs I’ve been in over the years and I’m lucky that DM invested and told us to invest with her in property. That’s partly to help DB who worked for years self employed and didn’t pay NI so his gov pension would be reduced when he retires.

Admittedly this was back in 1970 but my friend was in early 2000s.

Why the jealousy? If I hadn’t opted out of gov pension I’d be reliant on that and if I’d had children I’d have had to pay childcare etc.

Several friends of mine have got private pensions and BTL properties especially when they were self employed and also have children though they’re much older (teenagers at uni and adults of 30).

I agree here. A saving there is better than none.

DB and SIL were shocked that their Barnados nursery was double the cost of where they plan to move to in London (they’re moved across London) but will be down to £800. Of course it’ll cost money to move but they want and need to move anyway.

It’s not jealously is it? It’s just pointing out the selfishness of not caring about a wider society that haven’t had the same opportunities or financial security that you’ve enjoyed, and will go on to enjoy, because of the choices you were ABLE to make. But then the conservatives wouldn’t exist today without plenty of voters with exactly this attitude.

People mostly need two salaries to run a house these days. Often people 50 or even 25 years ago didn’t, so (mostly) women were able to take on jobs that they enjoyed /fitted around their kids, eg playgroups, and the fact they had low pay wasn’t such an issue.

Rent/energy/food prices were also much more reasonable then as well-all of which are significant overheads for a business.

Actually back in my day you had to pay to go to uni or got a grant. I certainly didn’t have loads of opportunities and neither did my peers. I’m not denying anyone younger than me those opportunities nor saying I can’t or won’t subsidise eg free or funded childcare. But there are lots of people like I said who do resent this.

I’m not denying that costs in general have gone up over the years.

I know a few single women who didn’t have children by themselves because quite simply they couldn’t afford it. These are women with professional jobs and their own homes.

Entice people from abroad! Thanks to bloody Brexit hardly any EU workers can be here! and the minimum income level needed for a work visa from most other countries precludes them coming.

I expect this was before Ofsted and mandatory training, safeguarding, writing of multiple policies for everything under the sun, along with paying staff, DBS checks etc. Sorry but a playgroup is not the same.

I knew of a nursery in the south of England which swapped from older people to nursery age because there was more money in it. I'm not convinced that all nurseries charge fairly. If nothing else, calling the subsidy "free childcare " appears to be ridiculous, from the stories on here. It's a con trick by the government.

@VeneziaJ the benefits of Brexit!

Not the food. But the time it takes someone to prep it (who can't be looking after children at the time so not included in the ratio), the energy that takes (cooker / micro / hob / water / kettle / whatever the method), the storage of the food, the clean up, the sterilisation of most of the equipment etc does. Also, my nursery provides nappies, wipes, creams, bedding for the naps (which needs washing, so more energy, water and detergent for them to pay for), and all of the materials required for the activities.

£15 a day is not unreasonable to cover everything needed to look after your child alongside the half a person's hourly wage the government provides per "free" hour.

Most of the jobs you’ve mentioned aren’t 9-5 jobs so by definition would be able to pick up kids some of the time? There are plenty of nurses and carers with kids at the school anyway, usually they seem to do 3x12 hour shifts a week so typically can pick up quite a few school runs and will share with the other parent, grandparent and maybe a pick up or two from an after school club if needed - that’s what most people do?

I work in a high paid job but from home so can do it myself, so I know who is at the school gate and who isn’t. Aware that it won’t work for teachers though! Simply saying the way it is, the majority access free pre-school on the school site and either share pick ups/drop offs between parents/grandparents and/or use a club for a day or two to pick up the slack. I don’t know anyone locally who uses before/after school club every day.

its also not a deprived area, mixed between affluent and some social housing, low deprivation, suburban.

I used a child minder for a couple of years before Ofsted got involved and introduced all the new regulations - every day's activities had to be planned in advance & structured, forms had to be filled in as evidence & it became more of a chore - plus they didn't get paid that much anyway - it was about £4/hour. A nursery cost a bit more but their days were structured & they filled in a daily log for each child in their own book which they brought home every day. This was 2007/8 I think. My child minder packed in a long time ago.

Nurseries are big business today, childcare costs vs a parent staying at home used to be a deal breaker. Companies had to start giving working mums the option to go part time (from full time) by law - that cost companies a fortune - they had to then employ part time staff to backfill the gaps, school holidays caused more clashes and friction. Sickness absence increased - another bone of contention. I don't know what's happened since - I got bullied by managers because I worked part time but the NHS were forcing people out any way they could to avoid paying redundancy - that's at least 10 years ago.