To not want to ‘cry it out’?

[MamaSleep]

Both DM and MIL are adamant I should let DD cry it out.

For context:
DD is 6 months and moved into her own room about three weeks ago. She slept incredibly well in Next2Me in our room but it was becoming a bit small for her (she’s very long). DD slept through from about 8 weeks (aside from a few nights at about 4.5 months possible 4 month sleep regression).

However, this has all gone to pot now she’s in her own room and I fear I’ve caused some bad habits. She now wakes up every hour/two hours and falls asleep when I pick her up. I try various things before I pick her up- white noise, firm hand on chest) but she continues to cry. She stops as soon as she is in my arms. I sit with her in the chair and put her back in the cot after 10 mins or so. Half an hour later (this varies, sometimes it’s before I’m even back in bed) she’s awake again and crying. This is where the real bad habit comes… I try this three times and then if it’s still not working, I just bring her into my bed. This didn’t happen as much as first but now happens every night. I’m scared she’s now learnt that if she cries she gets to sleep in my arms in my bed. This means I can’t sleep as I’m so worried about it (but at least I’m comfortable and resting).

I really don’t want to let her cry but I’m struggling with what to do. We were obviously very lucky she slept so well for so long. I’ve had next to no sleep now for three weeks and I’m feeling very stressed and down.

YANBU - don’t let her cry and try this…
YABU - let her cry.

I’d bring the cot into your room in your situation. Both of mine were fine in their rooms at that age - we had problems later on 18 months/2 years and we did sleep train because they were messing about - jumping up and down and playing, not distressed. In your case it sounds like she needs your presence - I’d get the cot in and give that a try. Not sure I’d bother with the travel cot - mine were never great on those and they tend to sleep very low down. In the cot she will be nearer to you in bed.

Bring the cot next to your bed, she clearly doesn’t like sleeping alone. I didn’t put mine in own rooms until over 2yrs

I read this and was none the wiser about what I should be doing!

Agree. Travel cots can also be uncomfortable and rustle a lot. To make it more.ckmfy you would probably want.to add a mattress, and, by that point you may as well just move the cot.

BTW, OP, another thought. Have you spent.time.in her room with her, just playing? That way you can create a positive association with her room rather than it just being a dark place where she is alone.

I would do neither option, my health visitor suggested the pick up and put down technique. You always go in to comfort them, pick them up and calm them down. Put them down and pat their back / shhh them till they are asleep. It’s a gentler sleep training technique.

So interesting about being in her room. She plays in the cot during the day when I’m in the shower/folding washing. I’m never far away. She has a mobile up during the day which I take down at night. She basically grabs them, pulls them, talks to them - she loves it. She squeals with delight playing with it. I was worried at one point she was too used to playing in there and that’s what she wants to do at night?

You’re not doing anything wrong. Dont forget our parents were of the generation that routinely smacked children. Times change. Do what you feel is right. Personally never left mine to cry it out but I have friends who found it really helped. Follow your instincts.

I am in the same position with my 5 month old and absolutely do not want to do the controlled crying / cry it out / Ferber method with my daughter either.

We are in the habit of breastfeeding to sleep and my daughter would prefer to sleep in my arms. It’s not working for me - completely exhausting and I’m not as good of a mum to her as I want to be when I’m so tired.

What you need is practical advice. You don’t need people telling you it’s normal, she’s a baby, educate yourself on infant sleep, etc, You don't need people telling you to cosleep (a known SIDS risk and against health advice). You also don’t need advice from family to just put her to bed and leave her to cry for however long it takes.

This is what we’ve started only this week and so far our sleep is improving.

1. We use the huckleberry app to keep track of wake windows and use their “sweet spot” predictions plus generally record trends in her sleeps so we ensure she’s getting the right amount and balance of day/night sleep. The app also keeps track of feeds, which breast you last fed on or when the next is due.

2. Try to follow a routine during the day, especially a routine for bedtime and a shorter version of the routine for naps. I use a suggested routine I found online and my baby gets about 3-3.5 hours of naps with 3 total naps and is in bed from 7-6:30 with multiple feeds/wakes in that time.

3. Just this week we started the “stay and support” method of sleep training which is essentially breastfeeding/rocking/bouncing the baby until sleepy then place the baby in the cot and stay in the room. Baby will start to cry, you stay beside the cot and offer any type of comfort you can without picking the baby up. For our daughter we use a dummy, she likes us to stroke her head, we also pat her body and sing to her or speak to her softly.

If baby is really hysterically crying of course you pick them up, settle them to calm/sleepy in your arms and try again.

Overnight our daughter wakes after every sleep cycle (two hours) because she doesn’t have the skills to get herself back to sleep without my breasts or arms. During the day she is able to go 3 or 4 hours without a feed, so I know she’s not hungry with every night wake. So for overnights I feed her only if she’s due for a feed (3 or more hours since the last) and otherwise I comfort her in her bassinet. I pat her, stroke her face, put her dummy in, talk or sing to her.

My husband does this with me - we sit beside the cot together and take turns with who responds to each noise. I don’t want my daughter to only settle for me - obviously with breastfeeding this is already happening to an extent but my husbands wants to have the skills to settle her too.

Our daughter has responded well - initially she cried but not very hard, then she was just fussy, grizzling and wriggling around. The last time we did this she just went into her cot sleepy but awake and actually fell asleep without a single cry or complaint. It generally takes anywhere from 2-15 minutes of actively comforting her for her to fall asleep.

Of course the end goal is that she won’t need my help to move between sleep cycles, we aren’t there yet.

I live in Australia and this approach is taught to parents by maternal child health nurses
I actually have a nurse visiting me in our home to support me with this next week. It’s a much gentler method to achieve the same means as cry it out - more independent sleep for baby whilst ensuring that the parent continuously responds to baby’s needs.

You would probably need to pay for a sleep consultant to get the level of support new mothers receive here unfortunately - I doubt health visitors there are able to come and help you in your home with settling babies for sleep.

There is a book called The Baby Sleep Solution by Lucy Wolfe which recommends a similar approach if you need more details.

Good luck and I hope you get some rest soon.

Thank you so much! I’m so glad I posted. Feel very lucky to have got this support from everyone. I have felt quite alone with it all IRL.

@MamaSleep The only thing to ask yourself here is this: is she their baby?
No. Do what you are comfortable with.
For context our eldest went into own room at 6 months and slept pretty well, our youngest stayed in our room until 2 years because it made things simpler all round. Both children are teens now and have no sleep issues, both go off to their own rooms without issue.
My point is do what works for you and baby and don't let anyone else's opinions take over. You are doing a good job.

Wow this is really helpful. Thank you. We do use Huckleberry to track but don’t pay for the sweet spots etc.

She usually falls asleep in the pram/car so we don’t have a very good routine with naps either.

Have a look into 'side car-ing' a cot if you have the space. My DS who is now 20 months will not sleep without me and this is the only way we get any sleep. DH would prefer him in his own room but understands this is the only way we get sleep so it works for now.

The cot we have turns into a toddler bed so we just have that side of and have the legs on furniture raisers to meet the height of our mattress. There are then straps to attach it to the bed so it is secure and he has his own sleep space but snuggles up to me when he needs to resettle. Lots of options for this if you feel it can work for you. It's saved my sanity and he is such a happy secure boy

Thank you so much! It’s reassuring to hear.

Oh yes our cot turns into a toddler bed so this could work!!! I hadn’t thought of this!

Don't do anything you don't feel comfortable with OP! She's your daughter, and it's you waking in the night- your call entirely.

We did sleep train ours - very gently at 6 months (shush pat, staying with him, which got us from hourly wakes to 3 a night) and then night weaned at 11/12 months (which got him sleeping through).

I think their personality is a HUGE factor. My son got frustrated by being picked up or held when crying in the night, would thrash about and continue to cry when he was picked up. In hindsight, I think he was frustrated to be awake and just wanted to sleep, but us picking him up was disturbing him further (as we did tend to rush in at a murmur!). Your daughter sounds temperamentally different as she stops crying as soon as she's picked up, which sounds more like she's upset to be alone as you identified yourself. So I think your gut is right and letting her cry doesn't sound right for her. Different babies need different things, so don't feel pressured to use a technique that worked for your mum or mil, she's not you or your husband!

She is totally normal and you're not doing anything wrong.

Personally, I'd remove one side from her cot and lash it to your bed like a bigger next to me. It works, everyone gets sleep, all happy. When it no longer works to the point that you're willing to spend however long it takes getting her down in her own room (with repeated pick up, cuddle/feed, put down asleep and sneak out if necessary) then move her to her own room. Don't do the hybrid thing where you start her in her room, been there done that, it will drive you crazy. (I do think it can help as an interim step with weaning off cosleeping, but commit to a time in your head that she stays in her room and when you're "allowed" to bring her through).

Crying it out is stressful, not worth it if you don't feel committed to the goal, and you can probably acclimatise her to staying in the cot, but it's normal for 6 month old babies to wake at night. Don't make life hard for yourself!

So you've been v lucky that she hasn't needed a night feed, especially from 8 weeks. I'd be inclined to do a dream feed at her first wake (or even before her first wake), just to top up her belly a bit.

Putting her on her side and doing a really firm rhythmical bum pat while applying gentle pressure with your other hand, can really help soothe + settle them in the cot

@MamaSleep I had no idea this was a thing until we needed it and someone suggested in a baby group. There are plenty of support groups to help you get the right safe set up on Facebook or similar. I was very worried about SIDS for a long time but he is in his own sleep space, on safe mattress rather than adult one etc but has my comfort. You will still get a lot of people that don't agree with this but it's worked for us and I don't know where we'd be without it.

When he goes to bed at night we put him in travel cot in our room with a monitor until he wakes and needs us. We get a couple of hours on our own at least with this, then I go to bed with him in the cot space. It's another option to consider

I really feel for you! Being so tired can take over, and if your network is eithwr non existent or made of mums with perfectly sleeping babies (hint: at some point they won't be)/out of sync with your feelings, it can be isolating.

Sleep is such an individual thing. You aren't doing anything wrong, and everyone will have an opinion. It's really just a case of ticking off things from a list that are acceptable to you to try to work out what might work...and they will just do what they will anyway! (Learning to smile sweetly and say no, or "that is an interesting idea, I will consider it" to other people who offer suggestions you don't like is a great parenting skill to develop as everyone will have an opinion that they will want.to share)

I do agree on Huckleberry being helpful for sleep tracking, and seeing any developing patterns. Don't get too hung up on it, though.

From the other side: make sure you keep an eye on its impact on your own MH.

YANBU at all. Disgusting to let any baby CIO let alone one so young. It wasn't normal when we were young, my mother and mother in law would never suggest this.

When ours got too big for the next to me crib we put a cot up in our room and they stayed in our room in a cot for a few more weeks to get used to the cot but with us still close by. We then moved the cot into their own room. Having said that we did let ours cry it out when it became apparent it was habit as they were waking up at the same time every night. Only took a couple of nights and then they slept through. Still both great sleepers now at 4 and 6. By one year they were both just put in their cot and we would say night and leave them and they'd self soothe to sleep. Still do it now. We might just be lucky though