Stopping contact due to cleanliness

[OneOliveFox]

Looking for some unbiased opinions/advice please.

My child (4) has been coming back from his dads house saying it’s dirty. This was a comment made once or twice and I spoke to dad about it who said it’s not it’s fine. Then he went again and came back and said it was still dirty so I said I’d talk to dad, which I did again and said please if it is please sort it as it’s obviously bothering him enough to mention it. He then started mentioning it to other people, my friends, family etc and going into detail about the mess (toilet, his smelly bed etc), this really started ringing alarm bells. I told dad this who again assured me it was fine. I asked to look myself for my own peace of mind to ensure it was safe for our son which he agreed.

Cut to me going to drop our son off and seeing the house is in fact filthy. Floors looked like they hadn’t been hoovered in months, dog wee everywhere (not just recently done), rubbish on the sides/floor/sofa, used vape liquid bottles, sticky floor and very smelly to name but a few issues. A totally unsanitary environment for anyone never mind a child. Our son has come home a few times smelling too. I didn’t make it upstairs so can only speak for downstairs but I can only imagine. I told him I was not comfortable leaving our son there so I’d take him back with me until he could sort it. He wasn’t happy and said there was nothing wrong with it other than needing a hoover (I promise you that floor had not seen a hoover in months). This went back and forth getting more and more heated on his part until finally he agreed to clean it and I managed to get away with our son.

Since then I’ve had countless messages, missed calls etc saying do not deny me access, I have no right, I’m not getting any maintenance etc and still reiterating there is nothing wrong with the place other than needing a hoover.

Where do I stand? I should add we have an informal arrangement for contact and maintenance no court involvement etc. But with what I saw today knowing he was happy for him to have our son there and how many other times he’s been going when it’s been like that (haven’t been able to see in before as curtains are always shut and he never invites me in) and the fact a 4 year old is listing the mess and dirt to me and other people honestly breaks my heart and I just don’t know where to go from here.

You must be really worried OP, and I would be heartbroken leaving DC in that situation.
I would hope SS would agree that that level of dirt is neglect and agree no access until it is sorted.
Explain to EXDH that you are not punishing him by not sending DC there, just protecting DC, although his MH issues will probably make it hard for him to believe this. Good luck.

As he has agreed to clean, I would go around again to check. This time take photos.

Ask DS if the house is ok (out of earshot obvs). If DS is not happy to stay, say you aren’t happy to leave DS and tell exH he can only see DS outside the house until it’s had a professional deep clean.

It may mean DS can’t stay over, but you aren’t stopping him seeing his son, you are just insisting on an environment that is healthy and comfortable for your son. They can do days out, tea out after nursery etc, visit exH parents for a sleepover etc.

You can call social services but all they will tell you is to safeguard your son if you’re worried. If it’s unhygienic and your son is commenting on it then that is enough to say your son isn’t going there; tell his dad he can see him but not at his house until it improves. He can go the court route and cafcass will visit the home and say the same if that’s what he wants. You absolutely do not have to let your son go somewhere that is filthy

I would communicate with him and arrange to meet up in a community venue for a shorter time regularly. Just be there to hand him over and collect. Somewhere like soft play, children's centre, leisure centre etc. Then you are still promoting the relationship. He's probably feeling a lot of shame or literally has no sense of what clean is. Children's services almost certainly won't be into if you are the parent who mainly looks after him. They will tell you to make safe arrangements. You can also have video calls etc and promote the relationship in other ways.

Has dc told his teacher about his dad's house?

I'd be saying he can see dc but dc doesn't want to go to your house or stay over.

Unfortunately we don’t have any family nearby and I have friends who are very supportive (will come round for a shoulder to cry on, help out with my child so I can run errands etc so from my part I’ve got a good village) but know he doesn’t have a lot of friends/won’t talk to anyone. Our son is good regarding his personal hygiene and will remind you when he’s having a bath we need to brush our teeth as that is part of his bath routine and something he likes doing but he does need an adult to do this. I don’t know if this is happening at dads as when I ask our son sometimes he says no then goes yes yes. But he goes to the dentist (arranged by me) etc.

I have picked him up before and he’s been in dirty clothes not dirty like a child’s been playing and got messy, dirty like clothes from a few days ago so I have changed him as soon as he’s got home but again dads reason is ‘we’ve just been doing XYZ and he got dirty’

Can’t say too much as it’s quite outing if you add everything together but he gets his housing through his job.

With only going to dads every other weekend he is never at childcare directly following dads house so they don’t get to see this and these comments have been made recently while on holiday from there but this is something I’m going to make them aware of when he goes back.

I don’t have photos and am kicking myself for not videoing when I went in.

Yes he has said he will but I’m pretty sure it’s an empty threat as he’s not good with money either so no way to fund this despite being on a good wage. I’d think he’d resort to turning up at my house before getting courts involved.

I can claim through CMS and would actually get more than he’s giving now and he’d have to pay more. It was just always in his best interest to not go down this route before so I agreed to an amount but obviously can’t continue this if he’s going to just decide to not pay which he hasn’t done for this month

Exactly he’s 4 and it’s like he’s telling everyone who will listen that it’s making him sad and he doesn’t like it.

He goes to nursery but these comments form him have only started since we’ve been on holidays from there. I have no doubt that he’d tell them also though as he’s told anyone that we’ve seen since he started making the comments ‘friends, mums of his friends, family on video calls etc’

Thank you I’ve done just that but he’s viewing it as a ‘I’m withholding contact’. Him seeing him isn’t the issue it’s the environment which also concerns me about his perception of hazards if he was happy to have him there like that.

Yes you are proposing to be withholding contact. For very good reasons. Make it clear you are prepared for your son to spend time with him, just not at the house.

Yeah it does sound as if your little lad is mentioning this a lot to anyone who’ll listen which is a cry for the grown ups around him that he’s not happy.

His dad is attempting to make you feel powerless by threatening court action or withdrawing maintenance but you do have the right to withdraw the visits based on what you’ve said here.
You could call his bluff and say OK take it to court and I’ll claim maintenance through official channels.

Do you have a health visitor who could visit dad at home and do an assessment?

Yes I have spoken to health visitor who said it’s very difficult as if dad refuses to let them in there is nothing they can do so unsure if it would help.

Yes exactly I feel like he is crying out and it really breaks my heart. I think I’m going to call SS tomorrow and make a referral for some help and also apply to CMS so that he doesn’t have that hold over me to just withdraw that at any moment.

Don’t feel guilty- you’re doing the right thing x

I think if he does bring it to court but has refused a visit from the health visitor, he would have to explain why, and I’d expect the court to then direct a home conditions check from either the health visitor or Cafcass. If it’s as dirty as you say, while it’s not at threshold for Social Services intervention I would expect the court to look at it further. (At least in my area they would)

Completely different situation but my son hated going to his dad's.

Made to share a bed with dad and new gf at 7yo.
His own bed used to dump stuff on so was never allowed in his own room.
If he refused to sleep with dad's new gf he was given cushions from the sofas on the living room floor.
Got food poisoning once after his dad gave him slimy on the inside chicken.
Walking home on a weekend with school uniform on because his dad couldn't be arsed to put the clothes on him that I'd sent him with.
Whilst walking home to me his breakfast was cereal from the box walking down the street when I asked why? Why was he wanting dry cereal from a box on his way home dad's reply was "Well its raining so least its getting wet and not completely dry" wtaf????

I stopped contact then until he got his shit together he clearly wasn't that bothered because he never fought for him.

Ss gave me a call as he had rang them on me, I told them the situation and they told me to keep doing what I'm doing as his primary carer.

He was very abusive and soon after I had a non molestation served against him so he couldn't speak to me for a year but never tried to make contact with son he has 5 sisters, parents, mutual friends, his gf could have all instigated contact.

Now it's just a case of if he sees him around he says hi in passing.

My DS is under camhs for several reasons

His dad has piped up a little since Xmas and son has been to see him twice.

Last week his therapist called me and said that as his primary carer I'm well within my rights to stop contact and let him take me to court if it comes to it if seeing him is affecting my ds mental health its up to me to help him. So I don't know exactly whats been said but I'm glad s professional has told me so. I don't know if it's just cos he suffers with his mh already or if it would be the same for any child but worth trying to find out.

Hope for your dc's sake he gets his act together though.

your poor boy! I don’t have all the answers for you but definitely keep documenting everything in writing, keep talking to your son.

Could you convince your ex to get a cleaner? He could get a once off day long service to do a deep clean and then get a cleaner in once or twice a week for 2-3 hours, they’re not crazy expensive.

Refusing Entry to a health visitor is worth having in your back pocket if it went to court.

In response to his “your withholding contact” remarks, I would tell him that yes you are, and that you will continue to withhold contact until he can provide your child with a safe and sanitary environment. Mess is one thing but dirt and dog piss everywhere 🤢 no way would I send my child to that. If he still insists on having your child there without first cleaning the place then I think you’ll have to call social services