Some mums enable their sons poor behaviour

[theprincessthepea]

I had my first daughter with my “childhood sweetheart” who ended up becoming a terrible adult and so we broke up when my daughter was young. He hasn’t seen his child for over 5 years now but I am still in contact with his mum who lives abroad.

As I’ve gotten to know her, I’ve realised her attitude is very much “boys will be boys”, “us women will always carry the burden of childcare and we should be grateful for the little men contribute” and “at least he cares about his daughter and is trying in his own way.” (E.g. a text once a month!!!!)- she tells me these things. Whenever he had stepped out of line in our relationship she usually laughed it off.

Her son has gone awol apparently and she is trying to convince me to “motivate him again”. He is in his early 30s - he should have grown up by now - but I believe his mum has enabled so much of his lazy behaviours.

I think about my current partner who shares the household load. He is close to his mum, she also taught him how to cook and he has an element of respect for his mums time and opinion. Complete opposite to my ex.

A friend of mine recently complained about her husband - they’ve had their 3rd child and he feels like he can “do what he wants” and when he goes to his mum she takes his side and treats him like a big kid (cooks for him, has the boys will be boys attitude etc).

AIBU to think that mums carrying this attitude plays a big role with enabling some of their sons negative behaviour. I feel like my exes mum enables him and I’m tired of her excuses for her son.

@villamariavintrapp his dad wasn’t around.

im not blaming all women, and of course my statement is a general one. But I’ve became close to my ex’s mum and she would dismiss so much of his bad behaviour, and say to me “well we are the women, we have to stick by our children, all the blame falls on us if we don’t.” - and he was an awful partner, and is still a terrible dad - but in her eyes he can do no wrong and is trying his best. But at 30 something he is absolutely useless - and when we were together he didn’t understand why I didn’t “take care of him” better (aka cook and clean all the time).

His mum tells me “people say I spoil my son, but I don’t care” - clearly she has raised him a certain way and I’m sure it has had some effect on him as an adult. Similar to @mondaytosunday story and what @Beezknees has said about sons getting used to women running after them.

If the shoe was on the other foot and if I, as a woman, paid zero attention to my child, I would probably be disowned by family and seen as an awful person. I just find it annoying that she is so calm about his terrible behaviour, is asking me to “help him” even though it’s no longer my business.

@Polominty Im actually not offended by that at all, I have known him since I was 13 and when we got together in early adulthood, I tried so hard to help him. Tried to help him get a job, gave advice, I took on most of the childcare with my family - but he was just taking the piss. He started borrowing money from me and never gave it back. Became jealous because I was climbing up the career ladder and he felt “left behind” - he then thought he was cursed - it was awful and whilst I fell into the trap of wanting to “fix him” I had to leave - and I got so much stick from friends and even his own mum who would tell me “why don’t you stick around longer and help him” - but he wouldn’t help himself.

Other women suffer as a result and blame women not men.

I do blame other women for thinking that women and girls will have to tolerate it rather than trying to find alternatives or challenge the facility. The issue isn't the reason why women do it, its the attitude towards other women and girls.

Okay so his dad wasn’t around so the dad gets a free pass then? He set a great example of how to be a decent man by abandoning his child, but you blame the parent who was there and raised him? So you are excusing bad male behaviour as well?
I do agree that his mum is out of order to expect you to still make allowances for him I would just distance myself if I were you.

You don't mention this guys father in your post, is there no relevance there? What example did he provide for his son?

Your actually talking - without realising it - about the whole system of patriarchy. The guy's mother exists within a culture and within a family that dictates the rules. By dumping the blame at the door of an individual woman who has no doubt done her best to shoulder the burden of care - you are perpetuating patriarchal hatred of women (while being smug about your OH doing the washing up no less). I expect you have had privileges this woman had not - divide and rule, that how the system works while the men swan off to do what men do and women like you do the finger pointing dirty work for them.

@LutonBeds were we separated at birth?!

But I have a very gentle, kind DS. Of course some men are violent but I don’t know what you expect parents of non-violent men to do about it. Do you think we don’t also worry about our sons being hurt?

Some women raise terrible sons
Some women raise amazing sons
Some women raise terrible daughters
Some women raise amazing daughters
Some men raise terrible sons
Some men raise amazing sons
Some men raise terrible daughters
Some men raise amazing daughters

there you go

....and

some people turn out great despite their upbringing, and some people turn out terrible

As people are always saying on Mumsnet about shit husbands "I blame my mother in law"

Haha! It’s possible, I’ve never really met anyone else with parents who were so contrary 🤔

I see where you are coming from op. But I do agree it's not fair to blame women/mothers completely. My own mother is just like your MIL and my brother has this entitled attitude from it while the daughters have been taught it's normal to pick up the mental load and housework etc. I do think my mother is more at fault as she actively taught this sexism but my father is guilty for not being a role model (true to the stereotype he did so little of the raising us left it all to mum).

I do feel as a mother of a bay myself the responsibility is on me to teach him better. Yes it's on his dad too but I chose very badly there and my ex will be actively teaching him women are there to support and service men because that's his life attitude

I agree. My ex and father of my daughter has a mother who has been cleaning up his messes since high school. He's now 48 and she truly does not understand why his life is a disaster. Everyone else in the family gets it but she will have blinders on till she dies. Part of raising children into adults is teaching them right and wrong.

I think your exs behaviour is solely down to him.

That said how we are raised contributes to a persons view point as an adult. It's the nature verses nurture debate.

I think like everything it's a little of both. Women who do everything for their sons in adulthood are doing it because that's what they were shown as children.

Generational patterns are formed and passed down. It takes a very strong person to break these patterns and frankly most are considered the black sheep by their family as a result.

If you smoke and carry the cancer gene, you will likely get cancer. But not always. Same with personality traits. If your surrounded at a young age the women having to do everything and the husband being allowed to shag everything that moves and waited on hand a foot, kids will see that (both boys and girls) and will think that's the norm. Our brains are programmed to fully engage when needed and conserve energy and default back to patterns without thinking to "power save"

Some people will put energy into changing and working not being a lazy arse.

But I think if people would be given the choice about - to get to opt out of housework, boring kids stuff life admin etc boring life stuff I think most people say "no would never do that to my partner" but secretly say yes please.

And some men having seen women in childhood do everything and think it's the norm. Why would you give up the keys to the kingdom (if everyone's told you your whole life it's your right) and sadly the current society somewhat enforces that.

I think it's fair to say that parenting has an effect on who we are as adults in general.

However I believe male role models are very important for little boys. So it's interesting you've focused solely on his mother to blame.

And presumably these adult men also have another parent, most likely?

Well as long as women also get all the credit for all the decent men and blame for raising daughter's who tolerate shit men.

I will try to raise good men, my husband will too. Just as his Mom and Dad did. However we're more than the product of our upbringing and if he turns out to be a dick, then who is responsible for the decisions of the woman who puts up with it and says awe but you know what men are like!!

So girls should be taught that they should be loved and cosseted and looked after but men should be taught they're worth less emotional input?

Absolutely! I rant about this frequently. I see so many boys at my sons school who’s mums have said “it’s just boys being boys” “all boys fight” “he doesn’t listen, what can I do?” Well he’s 8 so make him. These are boys that are raised by shitty parents (some by just the mum) who simply do not know how to parent their sons. It’s our job to teach our sons manners, respect, compassion, kindness. Some people seem to think boys can be wild and feral and accept it and it drives me insane. I am a single mum of boys and neither have ever been in a fight. I’ve raised them to have all the positive attributes I mentioned above. It’s ingrained in their personalities now to be kind caring humans. The boys who’s parents just say it’s boys being boys have reached the end of primary with arrogance, no respect etc-do I think they’ll learn as they go through the teenage years? Unfortunately very probably not. And this is the problem. I’m all for not blaming women for men’s behaviour, believe me, but the parenting (or lack there of) is absolutely the fault of the mum and dad and it makes me sick.

My mother was like that. I Wasn't allowed to do anything. It was exactly as you described. Then when I was older she constantly told me how useless I was cos I couldn't do things but I never had the chance to learn.

Hover she completely adored my brother and totally enabled his bad behaviour. He was 5 years older than me. If I complained to her about him, like the time he throttled me as a child or the time he stuffed his dirty underwear down my throat so that I couldn't breath she would say "well you probably deserved it" she died nearly 20 years ago. He turned out to be a very difficult unpleasant person who I still have to deal with to this day.

Hhmmm I have to disagree here.

My DF grew up with his Dad beating the shit out of his mum and all his children. Money went on booze while my Nan and her children begged for food. My Nan did her best in this environment, she had her first child in 1939 and last in 1955, all the boys she tried her best to teach how to treat women better. I didn’t know the older children, my DF was one of the younger ones, but my DF and uncles as far as I am aware never beat their wife’s, and were decent hard working men who were a step out of time. I know many of my uncles were main housekeepers, even before it was acceptable for men. I know for me growing up my DF was a better, cook, cleaner, housekeeper, and parent. My brothers were taught or tried to be, by my DF to be the same. But my Narc mother would absolutely 100% control every aspect of parenting with us children. There is a significant difference between myself and DBs, particularly the golden child, his poor wife stands no chance of him ever cutting those apron strings, and no matter what the SIL will always be at fault and my DB will be babied until the end.

Looking at my cousins who had positive male role models, some turned out to be the worse kind of partners, some turned out amazing.

My DF could have turned out like his Dad but he didn’t, my DBs could have turned out like my DF, one did and one not quite as my mother’s influence and control won out.

The boys that are waited on hand and foot by mummy grow up to be useless fucking articles and expect partners to pick up where mummy left off.
Op you've to motivate him to be part of his daughters life...he should be doing that anyway.his mum spouts some shit I personally couldn't listen to that.

And some mums enable their daughters' poor behaviour

This but we are also a product of our upbringing, so doesn't have to be the mum, but whoever is the primary caregiver has a huge impact on how the person is likely to behave as an adult... but yes, shouldn't be responsible

I'd say fathers (& men in general) tend to have a stronger influence on boys than do women. It is a plus if our sons can see us setting a good example but they will tend to identify much more strongly with men, imo.

YANBU

The adult men didn’t just materialise that way. Often ‘both parents’ aren’t around to begin with because the dad has buggered off.