To be confused as to why we’re not all sociopaths?

[User854]

This thought was triggered by the other thread where a child accidentally kills a hamster but seems to show no remorse; the child is widely being labelled a sociopath on that thread.

Are we not all then sociopathic when we gleefully tuck into our lamb chops that someone has killed for us? What’s the difference really?

No, that's actually not what I said at all. What an odd interpretation. Op asked why it didn't make people sociopaths and I answered her. A child walking up to a lamb in a field and killing it is immeasurably different to people who are paid to work in an abattoir

Yes, they are doing a job. Not really sure what your point was trying to argue a point that I didn't even say

Do you think the fields are full of lambs this time of year because it's natural and that's just what happens? Those lambs are farmed and wouldn't be there if they weren't for people to eat. That's why they exist in the first place. Dogs are bread to be pets/ working animals. Try training a sheep to heard dogs.

I'm assuming everything you eat for a balanced diet is locally and ethically sourced and it's the best use of the land?

In terms of no remorse - where’s the difference between your hypothetical child killing a lamb in a field and an adult killing a lamb for a job of neither feel remorse ? The child is a sociopath but the adult isn’t ? Why?

What are you on about? A child walking up to a lamb in a field and killing it with no remorse is obviously not 'normal' behaviour. People who are paid to work somewhere where animals are killed for meat aka where that is unpleasant but expected is a completely different scenario. And funnily enough I doubt anyone here has polled all staff in those places as to whether they feel horrendous after a day's work or not. If you can't see the difference, then I can't help you

BTW, it's not my hypothetical child, the thread was based on a child killing a hamster

Because any animal killed for meat is killed for a reason. Yes, we can choose to eat other things, and yes the vast majority of us are totally removed from the realities of farming and slaughter, but the fact remains that there was a reason for the killing.

Throwing a hamster at a wall, or the theoretical child killing a random lamb upthread, that is killing for no reason.

I’ll be very honest here, I’ve always thought that not being able to distinguish between these two things - killing for a reason and killing for no reason - is a sign of emotional immaturity.

A child killing a hamster after being bitten is very different to your hypothetical child killing a lamb . I was focusing on the issue of remorse. Is it different if a child were to kill a lamb compared to someone working in a slaughterhouse if neither feel remorse ?

I've explained all I'm going to and been crystal clear. Have a lovely evening

Because we're conditioned by what is socially acceptable.

Maybe that's what you're trying to do with this thread?

I do feel bad about eating meat (on and off) but it tastes really nice. And I think humans are omnivores.

I only buy Clarence court, burford browns eggs (or similar), or local free range eggs, and would never buy large eggs (apparently more painful to lay).

Could I kill my meal? Yeah, probably.

Could I kill my pet to eat? Probably not.

I have also been crystal clear and I think it’s just uncomfortable for people to think about these things so I understand why you don’t want to discuss further as it’s probably difficult

😂😂😂😂 That made me laugh, thank you

I think it is hard for people though - it seems to be that it’s the reason for killing that maters not the act of killing - so if a child kills for fun with no remorse that’s wrong and they are a sociopath but if an adult kills as it’s their job and they are doing it for food for another person that’s ok - but it’s the same outcome - the death of an animal but it’s the intention behind the killing that decides if it’s acceptable to society or not

I like this.

Harm reduction.

If every person in the world (that could) didn't eat meat for 2 days a week, this would make a big difference.

I need to aim for this. I don't actually eat that much meat, to be fair, but I eat a lot of fish and eggs.

It’s one thing to kill to eat. Another to kill for pleasure.

Well, yes. The reason is the whole point.

I don’t think abattoir workers need to feel remorse for what they do. I’d be concerned if they felt active pleasure.

It's not hard for me to distinguish at all. Re read TimesChangeAgains post

If you were being serious, I'll try explaining this way. Sociopathy is about intent in that analogy. If someone saw someone walking along then stabbed and killed them because they enjoy it the person still ends up dead. If a parent and child are walking along, someone goes to stab their child and the parent grabs the knife, stabs them to protect their child and the person ends up dead. The result is the same; the person is dead. The reason and feelings change everything. I'm not saying I agree with how slaughterhouses work, just that there's a fundamental obvious difference between sociopathy and killing for a reason

Genuine question, why do vegetarians think it is bad to eat meat but not bad to eat fish and eggs? I understand eggs are not animals but they come from animals and could have been a chick and also a fish has nerve endings and is a living thing, so why is that ok?

If that’s you feel then stop eating meat I guess? I will still eat it, that might make me a sociopath but I think there are a lot of other things much more likely to make a sociopath first in all honesty.

Most vegetarians don’t eat fish.

Most eggs would not turn in to a chick, only fertilised ones, and of those only ones kept in certain conditions in order to allow them to develop.

Not eating things which come from animals = veganism. Vegetarians drawn a different line which is not eating literal dead animal parts.

I am being serious with what I’ve said , I do see your point about self defence in the example you gave. That’s a clearer distinction.
I just find the child killing for no reason and a person choosing to do a job killing as harder to separate in terms of sociopathic tendencies.

I have autism so these kind of discussions in rl always seem to end up with me saying something where everyone just looks at me as if to say wtf??!! I think I’m doing the same here !

YANBU.
People don’t know - or pretend not to know - how animals are killed for them.
The difference is there are many (horrible) steps from lamb in field to on plate.
If the same boy got a job in a slaughterhouse that would be ok because we’ve decided some animals are fine to be killed for our pleasure.

I'm nd too so that makes more sense, as you were being serious, fair enough.

Separate note but if you haven't already, look into the difference between cognitive empathy and affective empathy for nd folk. It might help unpick the differences in thought processes on this thread :)

Thankyou I will do that. I think I’m focusing on the act of killing and then the reasons after when it should be the reason first then whether there’s remorse or not. But all I have in my mind is killing = wrong no matter what but I suppose like everything there’s so much more to it all and my thinking can be far too black and white

However, the fact that so many slaughterhouse workers have mental health problems and suffer from Perpetration-Induced Traumatic Stress shows that we aren’t all sociopaths, humans know deep down what we are doing to animals is wrong and terrible.

Yes, flip it like you just did there and that's all pp are saying :)

Actually for me it's the painful despairing tortured lives of farmed animals that I can't unsee - I don't have as much of an ethical barrier to killing wild animals or fish for food

Oh do get over yourself! I live in a country which relys on agriculture much more than the UK does, and the majority of farmers care about their stock and look after them. After all, if they want good prices they need healthy stock. I can't say I've ever seen a farm animal looking despaired or tortured!!

I'm a big animal lover, but honestly some of this emotive nonsense.