Shutting down discussion

[CheeryPye]

Why do people do it? Ganging up and hounding anyone who doesn't agree with them and endlessly hammering away at the report button to sensor any debate on the undeniable uncomfortable truths contained in some subjects, which people on a public forum have every right to debate? There are some topics that by their very nature raise significant moral questions and those very real truths may make some people feel uncomfortable but is it right for those people to go to such extreme lengths to bully and shut down that debate just because they don't like it? What made them so special?

Are we only allowed to discuss what other people decide we can discuss in the way they decide? That's how dictatorships begin. Time and time again threads are left impossible to follow like a patchwork of deleted posts because someone has got a bee in their bonnet and just doesn't want other people to have an opinion or raise obvious questions they don't want people to discuss. Why is their solution to try and cancel any opposing views by repeatedly reporting other people in a concerted effort to censor their views and get them flagged up as a problem to HQ in an attempt to get them banned from MN.

Is it not better to just not read the thread rather than desperately trying to control debate and frantically bashing away at the report button to control what other people think?

Oh happy Easter by the way 😊

I’ve not seen it happen. Assuming no misplaced, unnecessary vitriol that’s obviously ridiculous. But MN is mental sometimes and if anyone from abroad thought if we am accurate representation of how we did things/ opinions we had/ money we earned we’d be even more hated the. We already are. I guess MN could be trying to keep their target audience happy as the main users of the site.

Well, freedom of speech doesn’t apply to private forums. Freedom of speech protects against government censure, not moderation on a private website.

I agree and disagree. There is a line, and I do think the mods do a good job at not moderating with a heavy hand. There are definitely posters that want to shut down anything they don’t like though. You do see it - “I don’t like this topic, but I can’t stop myself from clicking on and engaging in threads about it so people shouldn’t start those threads”, as if a diverse forum should be tailored to their sensibilities.

Freedom of speech is the American term. We have the right to freedom of expression in the UK but, that only gives you the right to hold opinions and share information and ideas without interference from the state. Even then that right may be subject to restrictions as prescribed by law (as well as for other reasons including national security, preventing crime, protecting the rights of others, etc).

The right to freedom of expression doesn't extend to you (or anyone) being able to post whatever they want on a privately owned online forum.

Mumsnet HQ could ban the use of the word 'the' if they wanted to and you'd have to abide by their rules if you wanted to stay.

MNetguidelines do not allow discussion/posts that are;
Sexist
Racist
Disablist
Personal attacks
Obscene
Very unpleasant
Hate speech

For example, imagine if a thread was made to discuss the how lives of two named and identified disabled women are affected by very their unusual disability. A significant number of posters then comment and speculate about their sex organs, their intimate sexual experiences, 'ownership' of their vagina, say they should have been aborted, that the husband of one is 'disgusting' and 'a pervert' for marrying her, that he might as well have 'tossed a coin' because effectively it didn't matter which he married, that any man who married them is 'disgusting', that neither should have sex at all, speculate about masturbation and the feelings of the two when they have an orgasm, and what they actually do during sex.

It seems reasonable to me that other posters would report those posts because they break the rules of Mnet Talk Guidelines. MNHQ then look at the posts/thread and make a decision about whether that is the case.

Do you not see that? Or do you think that content would be acceptable?

I do think there are people misusing the report function to push their own agenda.

I have also seen some posters report something and then post "you are disgusting, can't believe you are such a .....ist" quoting the post they want deleted.

There are also posters who make personal attacks then claim "it was innocuous" when they were deleted as if MNHQ don't know what they are doing.

Then the posters who don't make a direct personal attack but gang up and bully people with a different opinion and usually succeed in driving them off the thread. That in my opinion is the worst, its really unpleasant behaviour. I can't stand bullies.

I'm glad I don't work for MN. It must be almost impossible to moderate, in my opinion they do a great job.

@LuluBlakey1

Well said.

There is a certain BullyBitch on this site who shuts me down every time I try to post a thread.

She knows who she is.

Of course I see that, but what I am referring to are posts that quite clearly are not

Sexist
Racist
Disablist
Personal attacks
Obscene
Very unpleasant
Hate speech

But still get removed then replaced with a vague reference to the guidelines. More often than not, those ones appear to be removed for little more reason than to pacify a vocal minority who want to dominate a thread and just cannot tolerate any opinion other than their own as being legitimate.

It is clear some posters do abuse the report button to get the most most innocuous of posts removed because they just do not align with their own view. In those cases I think MN should be less vague and be prepared to have this put to the test where it is clear they can't even find a breach themselves but just make a vague inference to the rules instead.

Otherwise it just looks like a minority get to dominate debate and hammer at the report button so much demanding removal of opposing views that MN give in to them for a quiet life without even finding an alleged breach.

I think it is much more common that a whole thread is just an open invitation for the kind of posters who posted all the lurid speculation and rumour about the Princess of Wales, to let rip with their awful remarks. Or that they just can not contain themselves and a thread that started out innocently and promoted some decent discussion becomes overwhelmed by posts that are at best thinly disguised attacks or inappropriate speculation about someone's private life, or contain layers of racist/sexist/disablist attitudes.

Then there are the MNet mean girls who pounce in gangs on posters and pile on, just repeating what each other have said.

People are free to think and discuss privately whatever they like. There are things that should not, and are not allowed to, be said publicly for very good reason. Some people seem to think they can just say anything publicly on social media. They can't. They appear to have no filters as to what is and isn't appropriate or about what it says about them as people that they hold and express such views.

@LuluBlakey1 I just saw a reasonable example on page one of AIBU. A thread was just deleted with yet another vague reference to guidelines about a pair of gym shoes. No actual explanation of what was breached of course. If anything.

I mean how are we supposed to know what guidelines are being breached when clearly those guidelines either don't exist or seem to apply even to a pair of children's shoes we are not even allowed to type the name of? It's utterly absurd.

Was it the plimsoll troll?

The shoes that must not be named.

It wouldn't surprise me if this thread is removed with some vague reference to guidelines too, but not actually explaining what guidelines it breaches.

And as if by magic the post above which was just hidden so MN could take a look at it has just magically reappeared.

Don’t understand why that thread was deleted.

The thread about the conjoined twins was revolting and I did report it !

I’m very open to debate and accept I’m not always in the right but believe you can disagree with people with being vicious. The level of spite on here is (sometimes) shocking. As adults we should be able to have debate without stooping to childish and nasty name calling.

Because it's a well know troll and PBP.

This is exactly what I mean. Why would anyone possibly report that? And then to get the vague message about talk guidelines which is fairly meaningless on a topic like that as clearly none of the talk guidelines were broken, unless there is a list of other rules we are not allowed to know about.

Regular MN users know the Plimsol troll and will report. Nothing to do with free speech and more to do with someone who regularly trolls MN.

Then why not keep it hidden? Why put it back as soon as it was highlighted? There's no consistency. You either remove it or you don't. A moment ago a post on this very thread was replaced with a message about guidelines. The post has now been reinstated. Go figure. It either broke the guidelines or it didn't. It can't be both.

Someone has said it was thought to be a troll or PBP so removed temporarily until that could be established or discounted.

The level of trollery PBPs always increases on Bank Holiday weekends .

Because some words trigger an automatic hide thread or comment response.

Troll hunting gets you banned from MN so if the Plimsol/bison/Tichel/Serpent troll posts people will report.

It is perfectly possible to debate a topic vigorously without resorting to hate speech, personal attacks or otherwise breaking the talk guidelines here.

If you - or other posters - can’t manage to express themselves reasonably, then that’s on them.

Mumsnet don’t delete comments just because someone doesn’t like them - they have to breach their guidelines, and those guidelines are there for a reason. Much as debating also has rules.

Some posters here don’t seem able to argue the point, not the person, so yea - they should expect their comments to be removed.