To think people with eupd are badly treated

[Nownow8]

Like people say we enjoy being in hospital and our illness isn’t a real mental health issue etc. we are also often left under the Gide of positive risk taking it’s just awful.

You sound like you have extensive experience of working with these patients. When you say they are cruel and do horrible things do you mean that they do these things to the staff? How does the cruelty manifest itself?

She really doesn’t as seems to be basing her views on a select group within the very wide diagnosis criteria.

But with all due respect your experience is limited to your daughter, and she clearly has interacted with much more patients in a clinical setting. And it would make sense that there is an overlap of symptoms within one diagnosis. I am not assigning any of these traits to your daughter. However I think it needs to be acknowledged how such patients are perceived by staff as I don't think this poster alone finds them incredibly challenging.

You need to look at the list of diagnostic criteria. They don’t fit the prejudiced picture that poster created in her incredibly unpleasant and worrying post.

I have, I literally posted the diagnostic criteria from the DSM.

So direct me to where the lengthy list of criteria sums “them” all up as:-

“They're needy. They're often cruel, they do horrible things. They have suicidality. They're manipulative. They will suck the soul out of you. They're often recidivist.”

Oh and re the “impossible to treat” with professionals views such as the above anybody would be “impossible” to treat. I have friends who work both in CAMHs and adult services who have had great success with DBT. My dd has friends with the condition who have been treated successfully and who are now living very full lives.

I had a friend with this and I had to cut her out of my life. It might be the disorder but it’s bloody time consuming listening to her say how she’s going to admit herself into hospital or she’ll end her life. Honestly it was attention seeking and went on and on and on. It’s a shame there isn’t a cure as I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. It’s not normal or right to want to hurt yourself for attention.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9762-borderline-personality-disorder-bpd

“Most of the time, BPD symptoms gradually decrease with age. Some people’s symptoms disappear in their 40s. With the right treatment, many people with BPD learn to manage their symptoms and improve their quality of life.”

Not quite the picture the previous poster creates.

I think she was referencing the manifestations of their behaviours as arising from the symptoms used to diagnose them. So the manipulative and cruel behaviour results from the combination of symptoms present, as opposed to manipulative and cruel behaviour being part of the diagnosis.

She needs to watch her vocabulary, incredibly worrying coming from a supposed professional and pretty much backs up what was said in the op.How do all those many symptoms manifest as manipulative and cruel behaviour as a collective group?

I do not know I have asked the question. I think it is acknowledged that these behaviours are a result of severe emotional pain but I guess it must be exhausting and awful to be on the receiving end of them. I imagine that the person with the condition may not be able to control their behaviour or have a lot of insight into the impact of their behaviour on others. So it is a vicious cycle which leads to the negativity expressed in the OP.

Sorry I don’t think it’s any excuse to write off an entire group of struggling people with a huge variety of diagnostic traits in that way.

It’s shocking and hugely worrying as a parent.

I received a BPD diagnosis in the COVID era. My experiences have led me to feel it's a very lazy diagnosis (mine was given by a mental health nurse) for patients who clinicians think they've done everything for. Until this diagnosis I was always labelled with "depression" but I'm medication resistant. There's strong family links to ASD but nope, I'm depressive and self harm (which I just do, and deal with myself - it's not manipulative, it's just the only way to get the pain out of my head for even a moment) so it MUST be BPD.

Even though I don't meet enough diagnosis criteria I am in BPD support groups and yes, it really does give everyone a green light to treat you like crap. You become a monster. Infantilised (I really don't understand that love for DBT, if common sense pop psych cured things then nobody would ever end up begging for help). It's an easy out for the NHS because they just suggest you are lying or manipulating them because that's what people with BPD do.

If I had the money for assisted suicide abroad I'd be gone. I can't fight the depression any more after 20 years (and this puts me in the "if you have BPD you'll be magically cured by life" age range) but I'm too goddamn considerate to choose to die somewhere that will traumatise someone in dealing with my body.

Can you have EUPD not extreme levels ie you can hold down a successful job? I think my Mum may have this. She’s delusional and in denial about so many things. It’s not anxiety and depression.

I do understand, my sister was schizophrenic. Her condition was awful, exhausting and painful for us to live with. I did not always like her even though I knew it was not her fault. So I think that there is a lot of complexity and deep emotions around these illnesses. I can understand why you felt she was writing them off, but I also think we should seek to understand why her experiences and interactions have led her to feel the way she does.

In my honest experience of dealing with someone with Eupd for 7 years often you behave badly.

I understand it's a condition but it deeply affects the people around you.

I've just cut my friend off as I couldn't deal with it any longer. It was causing me so much stress in my life and my priorities have to lie elsewhere.

I don’t. She needs a new job. I wouldn’t want anybody like that anywhere near my daughter.

I don't know but I know that people have messed up ideas and negative associations with these mental illnesses. There's a massive lack of education around EUPD, BPD and bipolar. I've

But they're based in fact.

If people weren't living highly problematic lives they wouldn't be diagnosed with these mental illnesses.

There seems to be a lot of stigma, I agree with this

Considering that many will have autism too or be misdiagnosed instead of autism there must be a huge number of crossover traits.

interesting that autism is a protected disability and the prevailing view is if you’ve met one person with autism you’ve met one person with autism. But with this even though there are a huge number of diagnostic traits sufferers seem to be very much thrown into a collective umbrella and written off with a huge amount of prejudice.

There is a lot of treatment available for EUPD in this country. The problem is that it’s often the same therapies for things that are often overmedicalised from the beginning (as they’re easier to diagnose) in this country like anxiety / depression etc.

When I suffered postnatal anxiety during pregnancy my health visitor’s first move was in-person psychotherapy. Covid meant it never happened and I was told to exercise and use other telephone based talking therapies which were far more approriate.

What is it about autism that gets you protection, understanding and a future which you don’t get with BPD?

My dd has both by the way and ADHD. Apparantly it’s ok to have ASC and ADHD but not BPD . BPD makes her into a manipulative cruel person doing horrid things. She’s recidivist instead of not being given the right treatment.

I agree, there a is a terrible stigma around EUPD.
I have this diagnosis, and it follows me everywhere. When I have been treated in hospital for self harm, the HCA/nurse patching me up refuses to talk to me. It is like there is something somewhere that says you should not talk to EUPD patients when treating their injuries.
There is a "patient alert - personality disorder" thing on the first screen of my notes (I have seen it on the computer screen).
I have been treated awfully when in hospital for something not MH related, and accused of making my symptoms up (I was accused of fabricating a broken bone FFS, I had an x-ray and came out with crutches).

When I have been in a psych ward, I just get left and ignored if I am distressed.

CMHT now just bounce me back to my GP when I get referred now. The crisis team take me on, but say I need long term support.

I do agree with a PP that EUPD is often a misdiagnosis for ASD.

ASD and EUPD diagnoses can co-exist in the same person; they're not mutually exclusive.