What makes you middle class?

[Singlemum90]

So a comment from my mother a few years ago has stuck with me ever since then really. When I was no longer a single mum, and found myself a little less skint, she said 'oh it's so good now you're just a nice middle class mum, I'm so proud of you'

Aside from her clearly looking down at me before this, and deciding class was what defined how she felt about me- I have often wondered what made her decide I was middle class at this point.

How do you define it? (I feel it's very subjective) Is it what family you are born into? Your income?(And what income makes the 'classes'? Is it a specific job type? The way you stick your finger out when you drink tea?
Or is it just a shitty way to divide people and how they feel about themselves?

Teachers now are absolutely not receiving 5-6 figure redundancy payments and lump sums as well as comfortable pensions 🤣 pull the other one!

FIL is working 10 years beyond retirement age; but realistically people in their 20s/30s now will be working beyond your FILs current age to be even considered “retirement age” - my generation will likely work til they drop.

And teachers work 50+ hours a week too; so again, maybe get a reality check in that one.

Whilst we have the professional careers (doctor, lawyer), kids at private school, middle-class lifestyle, hols etc I do not think we will be seen as ‘properly’ MC as I am not white and am the child of immigrants (also professionals). That’s fine by me. I don’t give it any thought day to day.

It has very little to do with money. At least now.

the teachers and lecturers and academics I know. Paid far less than the workieds now.

it’s to do with a mindset, educational curiosity and interests

crudely, if you watch crap telly then you aren’t middle class!!

structure I totally disagree. I don’t think this has anything to do with race. The offspring of immigrants seem extremely middle class to me

I’ve noticed a lot of people on here saying that class doesn’t matter - it’s all subjective, or it’s not important, or it’s trivial (whether you have a coffee machine or whatever) and that being a “nice” person is all that matters. None of this is true. I think people who say this are not class conscious because privilege is invisible to those who have it.

Class is complex and there’s all sorts of behavioural codes associated with what class you belong to - and people are right when they say it’s not just about money. But it is - fundamentally - about your relationship to the means of production, and your economic and political interests, which makes it important.

The only power working class people have is the value of their labour and in the ability collectively bargain for better pay and conditions. Every single right at work we have was not gifted to us by a benevolent employer - it was fought for, against those whose economic interests are markedly different and conflicting to ours. It isn’t about coffee machines.

Every other difference stems from that, there is cultural “scaffolding” that overlays it so people can identify who belongs to certain groups and who doesn’t. The middle class mindset, tastes, niche cultural interests and language is impenetrable to me - but I realise it is meant to be. They are gatekeepers to keep out those with different economic interests.

Class is about who has power in society and who doesn’t, and about guarding that power.

According to the lecturer at my DD's University it's her Dad's membership of a certain society (not Freemasons before anyone asks.) Apprently she's the first student to ever answer yes to the question!😊

“Serviette” is almost as bad as “lounge”, or “couch”. They all pale in comparison to “toilet” of course.

Middle class means you are all of the following:

• In full-time employment or housewife
• Work in a white collar role
• Own home outright or with a mortgage (excluding ex-council house bought under right to buy)
• Not involved in petty crime like shoplifting or drug-dealing
• Never sit outside the front of your home smoking or drinking
• Being considerate to neighbours
• Generally not being a twat for no good reason
• Educated to at least degree standard

Yes! The upper middle and upper classes would never ask this of a guest.
Basically, Jilly Cooper has the class system nailed, for anyone who needs to do more research 😂

@CaterhamReconstituted what I find fascinating is the people who are most disadvantaged by the existence of a class system are often those who most vehemently deny its existence.

I agree that a teachers pension is likely to provide more income in retirement than a person on minimum wage with an employer matching statutory minimums of auto-enrolment, yes. But 8%pa of salary going into a pension on the minimum wage over 30 years will see £80,000 invested, and with years and years of compound growth, a pot of more than £150,000 in addition to the state pension is not unrealistic.

@Notmyuser He is nearly 80, I suspect he will work until he drops.

I can assure you the situation with my parent’s retirement is correct..

Aware that workload can increase to 50hrs at key times such as exams, or when you are setting up new lesson plans and so forth.

The extended summer break, and always having other school holidays tended to make up for this for my family and friends.

I appreciate your point of view, but having seen and lived with the reality of both I still say teachers and the like have a much better quality of life.

You do know that many opt out @Everanewbie

We are looking at changing DH as total pot was predicted as 57k though I think initially he was on minimal contribution and less than what it is now when it started.

So stressful. And I find myself having to pull rabbits out of hats and am having to plan other investments due to this.

My side of fam nhs/teachers etc just seem to waft without worry regarding pensions and so forth. Mainly have been complaining that they can’t go on X no. of holidays, eat out or upgrade their cars so frequently.

Whereas DH family are talking about the cost of utilities and groceries, the basics.

@LovelyTheresa - aren't you a chef? A generation ago that would have been service or a cook:

😂😂

This indeed. It’s like the people who one would imagine would be most outraged by the existence of a hereditary monarchy with vast amounts of wealth and privilege passed on through a bloodline being the ones camping out all night on royal wedding/funeral/coronation routes to wave little flags — they’re overwhelmingly working and lower-middle-class.

Going back in time.

Or is it just a shitty way to divide people and how they feel about themselves?

It's this.

It's a weird one, I was brought up working class. My accent is working class, my Dad was a fitter at a factory and my Mum a seamstress and I've had a plethora of working class jobs myself, kitchen assistant, cleaner, receptionist, shop assistant etc I've also been broke and needed to sign on for benefits in early adulthood.

However I now have a post graduate degree and a career (the career was hard to break into and I had to take breaks in my higher education to earn money in any old job), I own my own home outright at 40 (modest house in a posh area up North that we overpaid the mortgage on before we had kids) my husband had more of a middle class up bringing, so he would be described as middle class.

So what am I classed as now? Fuck knows lol. Middle class people born and bred will probably consider me working class, working class people battling the shitty cost of living crisis will probably consider me middle class.

Not quite got Jason Manford money but I think he coined the term "Muddle Class".

@Justkeeepswimming yes, I agree, people will opt out, which is frustrating given the tax reliefs offered. I know people will want to hold on to every penny, but for £80 net now, £200 would go into a pension. We need to do a better job of informing people how important this stuff is.

They'll always be described as 'having a working class background'. Takes three generations at least to even start moving class

• 'Generally not being a twat for no good reason '

I take it you are not MC then.

I respectfully disagree with this completely. Class is fluid. Social mobility is a reality. The class system changed dramatically in recent years due to decline in industry etc. I actually think many of us are not clearly defined by one class or another anymore and have had varied influences.

I am a higher earner, have a PhD and live in a big house, and I'm working class AF. This is because I grew up on a council estate, went to a state school and had free school meals as a kid.

I'm not sure I agree with this. A lot of people are confused about what class they're in - others can hazard a guess but it won't always be right. I've had plenty of people make assumptions about me but they are rarely correct. Where you grew up and when also confuses things.