to wonder this...

[doyouwannaseeparis]

I have my tin hat on for this one. NC for this.
On the back of another thread I have just read.
Disclosure is that I have ASD with social impairment, also depression treated with 200mg Sertraline. (Before anyone shouts and says I don't know what I'm on about/im ignorant blah blah)
Why is it whenever someone does something that is obviously not the right choice or clearly very wrong morally/legally, drugs for example, people will always say "oh it's not his fault, he has Asperger's" but if he can work and generally function in society, surely person knows the difference between right and wrong on a moral and legal level?
Also, every time a child or an adult acts in a poor way, people say "maybe they have autism/ADHD" why can't people just be idiots and kids be badly behaved? Why is this always the fall back reason.

I would say in terms of morals, I think it depends on the individuals capacity to make good informed choices. It might also be the case where someone can perform really well in a particular area of their life (for example work) but then find peer relationships really difficult and get caught up in 'amoral' situations as a result. I absolutely think people can be idiots or that children can be badly behaved but I guess the thinking along these things is because we don't know what's happening behind the scenes. A child might be having a bad day and be acting spoilt or throwing a tantrum to get what they want, or they may be ND and struggling in a particular situation. I think the point of the fall back reason is to remind us that sometimes there are things going on behind the scenes so we shouldn't be too fast to judge. I understand you have asd but I guess everyone has different capabilites and manage in different ways so what might seem like an obvious right choice to you, might not be so clear cut for another person.

For the most part I find people to generally be quite logical, there's usually a reason behind why people do or say the things they do when they are 'getting it wrong' or acting out in some way. So I try to remember that before I judge them and dismiss them as just being an idiot.

'ASD with social impairment' isn't a diagnosis; it's more of a clumsy tautology or axiom.

I think a lot of people pull the Autism/ADHD card when explaining an individuals abberant behaviour, as there is SO much misinformation out there around both. And, people can be pretty stupid. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Excuse me?
That is what it says verbatim on my Ed Psych report and statement of needs.
😬🤯

Thank you so much for your well written response, gives me a lot of good for thought and I can see that sometimes my "black and white" thinking means sometimes I find it hard to understand that I can't hold everyone to my own standards.

I think because generally people aren’t ‘’idiots’’ as you describe, for no reason. They might technically know right from wrong, but they’ve had a shitty childhood, perhaps been in care or otherwise physically or emotionally abused, got influenced by the wrong crowds etc. I don’t believe anyone is born bad, there are genetic links to things but ultimately your environment shapes most outcomes.

Not everyone ends up the same way in the same circumstances, but I don’t think anyone is really born bad. That’s not to make excuses, but, ‘’he or she is just an idiot’’ makes the assumption that some people are inherently bad. People have addictions usually and turn to crime usually because of inadequate emotional development.

That 'pull the X card' thing is so ignorant and dismissive. If you don't believe someone, toddle off somewhere else. And be very thankful you have no issues that require 'card pulling '.

And that’s not me saying that autistic people or ADHD had a bad childhood necessarily, but people who are criminals tend to have triggers for that behaviour is what I meant. Someone with ADHD or autism or whatever else ND or MH condition won’t necessarily be criminals, but say for example someone has severe ADHD, never fitted in socially, was stigmatised, disliked by their parents, then you could see how that could play out into feelings of low self worth leading to crime.

Hmm. What made you name change to ask if this is genuine OP?

I absolutely love this response and wish more people had this attitude.

I have bipolar disorder- mostly under control but when I’m manic I make very poor decisions and life choices and I’m not always in control of my actions and behaviour.

You wouldn’t notice it if you met me when I was in a stable period and at the beginning of a manic phase it’s not always obvious that’s what it is.

It’s incredibly hard dealing with a condition like this and I’m aware all the time of what I say and how I behave, when I look back on past behaviours it makes me hate myself.

It’s nice to know that some people question the reasons behind it and don’t just think I’m selfish/unstable/weird/crazy etc…

My partner is autistic and hates disclosing it but is learning that in order to explain his behaviour and his understanding of things that he has to. He was giving evidence in court and was ripped to pieces because he was struggling to process the questions quickly enough, giving information in the wrong order and focusing on the wrong details and he laughs when he’s nervous. I nearly got arrested for contempt of court because I shouted out that he was autistic.

A lot of people think that society is accepting and makes allowances for neurodivergent people but it’s usually only on their terms or virtue signalling. When it actually matters and people are face to face with it they are a lot less understanding and impatient.

Because things aren't black and white. My ds can go to school and attain well (with significant scaffolding in place) but can have horrendous meltdowns where he gets overwhelmed and lashes out. He has also taken things because he wants them. But doesn't understand they are not his things to take.

All these things can be true alongside each other.

@DanielGault I don't think I wrote what I meant very clearly.

I'm AuDHD, my DCs are ND: one diagnosed with severe combined ADHD and ODD with moderate LD, awaiting Autism assessment; her twin is awaiting Autism assessment. Both have significant additional support.

I meant when people on the Internet/strangers/observers jump straight to suggesting Autism or ADHD when someone is sharing about their own issues or their child's etc.

From what I wrote, I didn't explain any of that. But, it was in my head when I was writing. I get frustrated when people without lived or personal experience via family or Neurodivergent conditions jump to suggesting it because there is so much misinformation out there.

Well, it's a badly written report, then as 'deficits' in social communication etc (I hate the word deficits being used about our community), so the clinician didn't need the 'with', as it's not an add on; it's key diagnostic criteria, not an Autsitic profile addendum. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Sorry, I get 'pull the mental health card' very often, so it's a prickly phrase for me. When you have MH issues, you're not 'pulling' anything! I have the hospital stay to prove it etc. as to ND, it must be very hard to navigate. The world is not built for ND people. And it's so often dismissed.

I've got severe and enduring MH issues, so really identify with what you're saying. My phraseology was clumsy. I don't always use linguistics in thr right way I think, so I'm sorry I inadvertentky sounded as though I was talking against our community.

No problem, it's just I often hear MH problems being dismissed as if we're all just attention seeking/ not trying hard enough at life. Some people just can't be bothered to open their minds to just how debilitating it can be.