To think Sunday trading hours is silly

[iguano88]

Everyone waiting at the self service and normal checkouts from 10:45, with full baskets and trolleys (shop was open for browsing but Sunday hours 11-5). Staff then opened all the tills at exactly 11 but not a minute before.

Why do we still only open large shops for 6 hours on a Sunday? 11 seems really late to open. There’s a blend of religions in society and more people need hours at work, Sunday evenings would suit students or parents who need to work opposing hours to their other half for childcare reasons. The more I think about it the sillier it is. I also think it adds to the ‘Sunday scaries’ people experience.

AIBU to think it should just be abolished and business as usual?

I think that defending unfettered hyper-consumerist capitalism by complaining that others are moralising is a hollow argument really. I do not want a 24/7 retail society regardless of my religious beliefs. It is bad for workers and bad for society at large. Personally I'm delighted that many supermarkets have rolled back from 24 hour opening during the week as well.

I agree that the legislation as it stands doesn't make much sense, but that's because it is not comprehensive enough, not because it exists at all.

... But only once a year. After all, who needs to spend time with family and friends the rest of the year?

Personally I think Sunday trading rules should go further, to allow as many people as possible to have the chance to socialise at a time when most people are off. Or possibly something like "weekend trading rules" with reduced hours on Saturday and Sunday, and strict rules about how much weekend work should be allowed/allocating weekend shifts fairly. (You'd need an opt-out clause or something where people could request weekend work, for those who actually want to do it.)

I say this as someone who had to work too many weekends and it destroyed my mental health and life. Single people without family need time to spend with others too.

I hate to break it to you - but the horse has bolted.

And moralising about ‘consumerism’ is pretty distasteful when you are talking about a set of activities that includes buying bread and milk at times you disapprove of. Meanwhile, the really frivolous purchases are easy to make 24/7 online.

How many of those people on this thread who have argued for longer shop hours on a Sunday ever work on one? Even just say four or five a year.

Service does not mean treating those who provide it as servants.

do you want to mandate everyone has a SAHP too? Or do you just want to make it very difficult for people who work FT M-F?

And what about the people who want to work weekends and evenings - students, parents looking to minimise paid for childcare, etc, etc?

There are loads of M-F, 9-5 jobs in the world. Not everyone wants those kind of jobs. And if ever more people are restricted to those hours, then it will mean the few hours on a Saturday that you e designed acceptable for shopping are an absolute pinch point for people who are juggling a lot and cannot do it during the week.

Yes. As a student I funded myself working in Sainsbury’s. I took all the Sunday overtime I could.

We had a changeover at the holiday cottage yesterday, one departure and an arrival. It didn’t clean itself.

Some of us spent our student years working 4pm-11/12/1/2 shifts on Sunday nights in fast food restaurants. I also did a Christmas stint in toys r us (in Scotland, where it could open late on a Sunday) - both suited my needs at the time.

working at 11pm on a Sunday night doesn’t mean being treated like a servant. You can be treated like shit at 2pm on a Tuesday just as easily.

you also seem to be assuming that people with m-f office jobs don’t end up working on Sundays. Unpaid often.

If you don’t want to work weekends, I’d suggest that retail is possible not a great choice of industry for you. But many people actually want to work weekends.

Loads of people work Sundays and nights in other jobs including small shops and leisure outlets. Not sure why it's only workers in large supermarkets who need protecting from Sunday work. Also people still work in supermarkets on Sunday evenings etc just not on tills! Night shift/restocking shelves etc still happens.

People can choose a Monday to Friday job or a job involving weekends and lots of people would prefer to work more hours on a Sunday. So there's no logical reason for shops not being allowed to open normal hours on a Sunday. It's outdated.

No, scientific reality is that social clubs benefits physical and mental health.

It's less about the individual jobs than the total numbers. If you open supermarkets for extended hours on Sunday, then you need a certain number of people to staff them. You also open the case for other businesses to be allowed to be open.

Worth pointing out that a lot of sectors where jobs are low paid and need to be done at fixed times in set places are struggling to recruit, even during the week when access to public transport and childcare is better. So I'm never convinced retail would be any different.

The UK is in a weird position where people increasingly expect services to be available outside the traditional standard working week, but this demand isn't necessarily creating sufficient supply of labour to provide it.

No, scientific reality is that social clubs benefits physical and mental health.

what exactly does that have to do with the price of fish? Unless you think working in ‘spoons is somehow attending a ‘social club’.

The UK is in a weird position where people increasingly expect services to be available outside the traditional standard working week, but this demand isn't necessarily creating sufficient supply of labour to provide it.

It’s hardly a preference to not be available to do shopping etc outside the ‘traditional working week’ when you are working FT.

Loads of these arguments seem to be based in a set of assumptions like households having someone available to shop on a Wednesday instead and no one having a preference for working at weekends.

I didn't use the word preference, so your first paragraph is odd.

Nor did I say that nobody has a preference for working at weekends. There clearly exist some people who do, albeit not all of them will be able to do so given that public transport and childcare are often less accessible then.

This hasn't, however, prevented sectors where weekend work is needed like hospitality, care and NHS from having significant recruitment problems, and nobody ever explains why this wouldn't be an issue in retail. None of these things are assumptions. There's no automatic connection between people wanting a service to exist and other people being willing to provide it.

This comes up every now and again. As someone who works in a supermarket, no thanks.

Staff would be moaning that they have to work 3 to 4 Sundays on the trot to cover people's holidays. The same staff would use annual leave to book a lot of them off and itd be the same staff stuck working them. 6 hours is plenty of time for shopping Esp when supermarkets are open till 10pm weekdays.

I explained up thread. Lots of Sunday trading kills weekend clubs. I've really noticed the difference moving between places that have lots of weekend/ Sunday trading and those that restrict it.

Ie, people won't join a sports team if they can't commit to matches every weekend. More people working weekends = fewer sports clubs.

It also makes get togethers and family gatherings really hard. More people working on a Sunday = more likely you are leaving someone out if you are organising something for a particular weekend

Yep 👍

Well put.

Lots of people work on.a Sunday and they are not in retail people seem to think that society will fall to bits if the supermarket is open after 5 on a Sunday!

It's not a simple on / off thing, though. We are always going to need some people to work weekends.

However, the more people we have getting out and exercising and joining groups, the better it is for our physical and mental health.

Increasing the number of people working on the weekend by a little bit can cause big changes in sports and community activities.

It doesn't mean that Sunday trading will cause the sky to fall in. However, given the choice between increased trading and a healthy community, I would choose the latter.

There isn't a correlation between retail workers and exercise on a Sunday even if you say so @LameBorzoi people who want yo join clubs look after their mental health will do so regardless of having an 11-5 shift.

ffs, that is the whole point of the state - you pay taxes, the state gives protection.
Oh, old good days with 12 hours woking day, no pension, no health and safety provision and cherry at the top - child labour. oh, these were the days.

I work in retail and would support it if working was guaranteed to be voluntary. But it wouldn't be. Sundays started as optional, with extra pay and are now just considered a normal day.

It's funny how many people say their kids would work them, because I'm desperately trying to drop my Sundays, but can't because nobody wants to work them. Including teens.

Other posters are also correct in thinking there wouldn't be additional hours, just current staff would have to work more unsociable hours.

There are more than enough hours in a week for people to shop already.

On the other hand if all businesses had to provide their services 24/7 for others convenience then I'd support it to be fair.

Do you have proof of that? I have lived experience of different places that place different priorities on free time. It's not about whether a person can squeeze exercise in before work like some kind of obligation. It's about whether, as a society, we value lesuire time, and are prepared to protect it.

Leisure time that doesn't occur at the same time as large portions of your community isn't high quality leisure time.

I mean, we shouldn't be having fun so that we can look after our mental health in order to work. We should be having fun because we are human beings, not robots.

And yes, the person working the 11-5 shift may find a club they can join if they are really determined. My point is that you shouldn't have to be really determined in order to do these things - it should be easy and natural. And the quality, frequency and variety will be reduced with too many people working staggered shifts.

It's funny how many people say their kids would work them, because I'm desperately trying to drop my Sundays, but can't because nobody wants to work them. Including teens.

Doesn't surprise me. After all, there are already sectors offering similarly low paid, inflexible work for longer hours on Sundays that struggle to recruit. And of course we're not going to get the 24/7 services in every sector that you mention, so even for people who do want this work there are practical barriers in some places. No good finding teens who theoretically would work 5-11 on Sundays if they can't get home after.

It’s not necessarily better in other countries. In Finland you can only buy alcohol from specialist shops which are state owned monopolies. They are open until 6pm on Saturday and closed on Sundays. These shops are also usually far and between so depending on where you live, it can be long drive to the nearest one.

You can buy beer & cider from a supermarket but I think there’s a time limit for these too even if the supermarket is still open for everything else.

Sweden also has their Systembolaget which is a similar system.