To want to forward these messages to my neighbour's LL?

[Frequency]

For background my neighbour hates us. I have no clue what we've done to her but we've clearly done something because she complains to my LL about everything.

We get letters around once a month with complaints to the point where we feel we cannot live normally in our own home. We don't open windows, we don't listen to music at all after 8/9pmish and we never have loud music. We don't have guests over for drinks and when people do come over we make everyone sit in the kitchen with all the windows and doors closed because nextdoor will email my LL if she hears anyone talking or laughing. We've even had complaints about the dogs playing at 6pm because she could hear them jumping onto the floor from the sofa (not a flat, she does not live below us).

I accept that she can hear us. We can hear her family. It's an old house with thin walls and poor soundproofing. My work colleagues used to joke they knew more about the family next door than they did about my family because they could hear them shouting at each other during our morning meetings.

I've never complained to her LL but I did once have to text her while I was working from home during the summer because clients were complaining about the type of language being used by her teenage children. I made it clear in the message the loud music was not an issue. I understood it was summer and people like to listen to music (even though we can't without her recording us and sending it to my LL). It was literally just the language being used that needed to stop.

Yesterday, I got an email from a job I'm going after to let me know I passed the stage one and to invite me to a second interview and technical test on Monday. They acknowledged my experience didn't fit the role and included links to some courses that will help me pass the technical test. They were all 12-15 hours long.

I didn't get the email until 4 pm and I'd just sat down to do some coursework for uni so I planned to start one of the courses after dinner at around 8 pm and do 3 hours of study with a plan to complete the next 9 hours today and go over anything I don't understand tomorrow.

At 8 pm I start the course. It took an hour to set up the virtual lab so I could study. 9 pm very loud music starts from next door. It's loud enough that I can't hear the instructor on the course without turning the volume up to the point it was way too loud and made it difficult to concentrate. I tried to follow along with subtitles but it was hard to read the subtitles on one screen and follow along in the lab on my second screen, so by 10 pm I gave up.

At this point, I was still fine. I figured I'd have an early night and start early today. I assumed the music wouldn't be as audible upstairs. I was wrong. It honestly sounded like the party had split in two and one group of them was in the room next to mine.

It was Friday night, so I decided to be patient. I stayed in bed and tried to read (which was hard over the singing and screaming).

At 2:30 am this morning I lost my patience and texted the neighbour asking if she could take the party downstairs as I couldn't sleep and had plans today. Again, I made it clear I wasn't expecting the party to stop, I just wanted the volume turned down.

Turns out they were downstairs, it was just so loud it sounded like it was in the room adjoining my bedroom.

I sent another message explaining that and asking if they could lower the volume a bit. I wasn't expecting silence. I didn't want them to end the party. I just wanted the singing and screaming to stop.

The reply was word for word, "like, sorry but it's Friday night and it's my son's birthday!".

They eventually stopped singing by 3:10 am this morning. They were still loud. I could still hear the music and loud talking and laughing but I managed to get to sleep. I was woken again at 4:15 am by my dog giving a half-hearted "that is a noise I should bark at but I know I am not allowed to bark at that wall" bark. I assume the noise he was wanting to bark at was doors slamming because the noise from next door stopped a few minutes later.

I've slept in today. My head is pounding. I'm struggling to concentrate on the course I need to do and keep having to go back over the same content. I still have over 9 hours left to do.

Part of the distraction is a simmering rage about the double standards. They have complained previously about us laughing and singing along to music at 9 pm on a Saturday but I'm unreasonable to complain at 2:30 am because they have a birthday party???

AIBU to want to screenshot the text conversation from last night and forward it to her LL?

I suspect I am but the tiredness is making me grumpy and petty. I have previously avoided complaining to her LL because it would end up being a childish playground tit-for-tat game.

(apologies for the essay there is a lot of background info and I didn't want to be accused of drip feeding).

I'd do it.

Purely because somewhere there is going to have to be compromise.

You've tried that by changing your living habits.

But yet they are continuing to live how they like knowing they get to control your lives.

Of course it’s not unreasonable to complain about genuinely disruptive and antisocial behaviour. But why have you told your neighbour loud music isn’t an issue in the past? Clearly loud music is antisocial and an issue. Why are you being such a pushover and trying to people-please, why does the neighbour deserve to be put above your own comfort?

You need to complain every time. Does your landlord know how unreasonable her complaints are?

I've never explicitly said that I'm fine with loud music but I've never complained about their parties in the past. They don't have frequent parties until the wee hours. It's usually no more than 3/4 times a year.

The only time I mentioned music at all to the NDN was when I texted her last summer about the language being used in the garden. I did say in the text "I don't mind the music and laughing etc. I get it's summer and people want to use their gardens but the type of language being used is disgusting and clients can hear it over the phone and have complained to my line manager."

The LL is a social housing provider. Some of the staff understand the complaints are unreasonable. Some just look at the history/frequency of the complaints and assume we are one of those families. I have threatened legal action for harassment in the past because we were getting letters threatening us with eviction every month. That had some effect and we now have a dedicated member of staff who deals with the complaints and is aware of the history.

The social LL was sending you letters threatening eviction every month but nothing to them?

I don't know if anything has ever been said to her about the complaints. The LL don't discuss that with me. I doubt it because I have never complained bar the harassment complaint which was more aimed at the housing provider's management of the situation than at NDN.

The eviction threats aren't eviction notices or serious threats, allegedly, it's the way the letter is worded that makes it sound like that. I don't have a copy of the letters to hand but it is along the lines of "This behaviour is a breach of your tenancy. Your tenancy agreement forbids you from causing a nuisance to your neighbours and if this behaviour continues we may take action to terminate your tenancy."

Once I was appointed my own contact within the housing agency she explained it is a standard letter sent out whenever they get a complaint and the only complaints they take seriously are the ones with evidence attached of which they only had two in the whole time we have lived here (7 years). We are not anywhere near the threshold for eviction. It's still a scary letter to get.

Yes, I can imagine those letters are quite anxiety inducing. I would be anxious getting those types of letters. But I would also be really angry. You should counter those threats with evidence and letters of your own, indicating all the ways she has done harm to your peaceful enjoyment of your home. In fact, I would go further and phone the council. Where I live we have a Safer Communities Team who deal with anti social behaviour. They can act on your behalf.

Yes complain.
But also get some headphones and earplugs.

most of us live in close quarters with neighbours so have to find solutions that are immediate as well as long term.

You absolutely should complain. For a few reasons

• it lets her know that it cuts both ways, you can hear her noise as well as her hearing yours and that you can and will take the same action as she has done
• it sends a clear signal to the LL that there's a insulation problem between the houses so that if the event of future complaints from her you have some evidence
• 2.30am is bloody unreasonable for any party IMHO!

You need to get a noise recording machine- one that picks up on the level of decibels the noise is at. We had to get one years ago when we had a neighbour with 8 dogs he left locked up 18 hours a day. One was a Chihuahua….shudders

Eventually we got it sent to court and he was evicted.

Record, report, repeat.

She’s treating you like a doormat OP.

Take videos
Keep text messages.

I'd complain but also take it as a green light to make appropriate noise and not worry about more complaints. If it's household noise or during normal hours, crack on.

You need to contact the council about noise complaints, every time she does it. No point just going to the LL. They won’t do anything. The council noise team can liaise with LL however to get the tenant evicted.

They're not really noisy definitely not to the point of needing to be evicted. Nor are we. It's just old housing with really poor insulation. Except for the occasional party, it's usually just normal household noise we hear eg mum shouting at the kids to get up/dressed on a morning and a bit of barking from their dog. It's not excessive.

My anger really was just the attitude she had when I politely requested they turn it down a bit because it was 2:30 am and the double standards.

It feels like she can do whatever she wants in her house but we cannot live normally because she finds regular, everyday family noise too disturbing.

The time she complained about us singing it was 9 pm, we sang one song, whereas they were having what sounded like a badly out-of-tune 90's pop karaoke session from 9 pm to 3 am and I was supposed to just be ok with that because it was a birthday?

I've sent screenshots of the text to the housing association and explained that it was her attitude when asked to turn down the volume I found anti-social rather than the party noise.

Any other time she has had a party I've either been on nights so been awake anyway or I've taken the opportunity to nip to the shop for a bottle of wine to drink while listening to my own music for the night but last night I genuinely did need to sleep.

I am not sure why people keep suggesting earplugs but they don't work and why should people have to wear them?

Because yes she can complain to landlord, but she also needs to get through studying in the next few days.

so she needs something to help in the immediate short term.

Sounds completely unfair, they complain about normal living noise, which you are respectful of yet they can can do this? Fight fire with fire!

I would look into soundproofing. You might find there's something that will help ( under the floorboards, for example). DS has done it with his flat and it makes a big difference.

I don't live in a flat so I don't think putting anything under the floorboards would do much but either way, I can't afford to make changes like that. I did look into soundproofing the party wall when I decorated and it would have cost thousands per room. It's on my wishlist should I ever become wealthy but then again so is moving away from her

The walls are just really thin. Atm I can hear her TV because there is no other background noise in my house. The kids are out/upstairs and I've been doing my course which I've paused for a break. Once I turn my course back on I won't be able to hear her TV over the top of it.

Her stairs are next to my living room so I can hear her calling the kids upstairs quite clearly, that's what my team used to hear during morning meetings. Them calling up and down stairs to each other, nothing excessive or antisocial.

When she says she can hear the dog jumping off the sofa and playing I don't think that is what she is actually hearing. I think she's hearing his daft 10 minutes when he knows the "W word" is about to happen. He jumps from the sofa to the chair and back again which does cause the furniture to slide about a bit because he is a heavy dog but that only happens for 10 mins a day usually between 4 pm-7 pm depending on what shift I've been on. As soon as I pick his harness up he sits quietly.

It is genuinely just regular, everyday family noise from both sides bar the occasional party which I don't usually mind except for the fact that if we did it she would record us and send it to the LL. When she does it we normally just ignore it.