To replace my old sash windows with replica upvc?

[emsa1]

As above. My sash windows are original and our house is freezing. The windows get covered in condensation. Every morning. Mould is an issue in some rooms and ice has been known to form on the inside of some of the windows. Today I was told that it’s possible to get UPVC windows which look almost identical and are likely to not need planning permission, even though I’m in a conservation area. Has anyone gone for these and will you pleased with the results?

Argon filled slim heritage double glazing. He did reweight all the lead, but they needed it anyway. The house is from 1890 and he said they were the original windows.

Kindly, I agree with all of this

And also if you start taking out original features you affect the way the house functions and breathes, and could end up with problems like damp.

It is unfortunately one of those things that if you want a very warm house it will need to be a modern one. I've had to get used to being 18 degrees in the winter because it costs a fortune otherwise! Lots of listed single glazing here 🥶

While I agree UPVC sash windows have improved and to the passing observer look like wood, but they are still plastic and look nasty to me.

You MUST check and double check the planning situation then take advice on top from a proper expert with professional insurance. Friends of mine installed these as did their neighbour after seeing someone else on the street have them put in. All told by the installer they looked the same so no planning issue. Looked good. Everyone very happy.

Conservation rules include materials as well as appearance so all three are having to swap them out for wooden sash windows within 18 months after losing planning enforcement proceedings and they have no claim against the window installer. It will virtually ruin my friends financially.

Where I live, the whole of the town centre is a conservation area and you need planning consent to change windows, doors, and practically anything else that affects the outward appearance of the property.

Here, they are very strict and refuse consent for uPVC windows on any of the older properties. The only replacements for sash windows that they will accept are double glazed hardwood sashes. People have been fined for it, and ordered to replace the windows they've just put in with approved windows that look exactly like the old ones from the outside, so end up paying twice (and a lot more for the second lot of windows). A friend was refused permission to replace an attic window with a Velux, and you could only see it from the top floor of the court building nearby.

There are local people who ring the council anytime they see work going on at older properties. A friend lives in a Victorian cottage with outside walls that are tile hung from the first floor upwards. She had to get some of them rehung and a few replaced and didn't realise she needed permission. The very morning the builders started removing the old tiles, someone from the planning department rocked up to check what they were doing. They were happy with the materials they were using, which were old tiles from an architectural salvage place, but insisted that the work stopped and the relevant consents applied for.

Imo, it's not worth the risk and possible extra expense. And your council may be nowhere near as strict as mine and the windows you're thinking about may be acceptable to them.

I vote for replacing single glazed wooden sash and case with double glazed units in the same wooden frames (or replacing part of the wooden frames).

They'll add value whilst keeping you lovely and warm. They'll also be accepted by your conservation area.

We did this last year on our 1906 London terrace. It's a halls adjoining Edwardian style house. Not in a conservation area.

The difference it has made is ridiculous - the house is so much warmer, quieter and feels so much more secure and cosy. No more wiping up condensation every morning. No more mouldy flaky window frames.

It also feels so much safer when opening windows as I'm not worried about sash weight ropes breaking or Edwardian glass breaking.

From the outside, you wouldn't really clock that our house looks much different.

Look into secondary glazing! All the benefits of double glazing (warmth, sound insulation etc) but lets you keep your beautiful original windows.

We got all our wooden cottage windows replaced with Timberlook uPVC windows and paid extra for the insides to be the same as the outside and traditional ironware. They look amazing and are so warm. Our cottage is listed and these were approved for use which was a relief as replacement wooden windows would have been circa £65k and this is a few years ago before prices went up.

Another vote for secondary glazing.

It gets fitted on the inside of the windows within the window reveal.

Doesn’t matter where you purchase glazing from, it’s the profile they use that makes some more attractive than others. Go to the showroom & have a good look what’s on display then try another place, to see subtle differences in style. Always ask who makes the profile that is used, & ask if it can be glazed from the inside as it’s safer, some profile will only be glazed on the outside& in certain circumstances can be reversed, but it may look horrid.

Conservation rules include materials as well as appearance

Yep.

It's a fundamental principle of conservation - it's not just about how looks look, it's about authenticity - the materials, the craft/methods etc.

The main thing to remember is all D/G is made the same way in every factory, nothing magic about any of it some just looks better than others

we had our original sashes refurbished and they are beautiful. The maintenance is a pain, but plastic windows don't look right, especially if you have period features in your rooms.

Thank you, may I ask please what windows you used if you can remember?

We had the glass replaced in our sashes - double glazed panels made to fit. We had to as in a conservation area. It wasn’t any more than replacing whole units and took a day to do

sorry but I don’t like the way they look from the inside. My neighbour has them, and her outer windows are still dripping with condensation every morning too.

We had some fitted in a flat. The quality was excellent and far, far superior to wood.

Unless you're in a listed building, I'd definitely get good quality uPVC sash windows.

We paid around £800 per window, but that was 10 years ago.

We did but for each quote we got we did what we called the ‘road test’ - we found out where the windows had been installed and if we could walk past the house and tell that the windows were upvc not wood they were rejected. We have not had the upvcs for 8 years and so pleased with them, they look like the old sash but we are warm!

We have had no condensation either. So I think there may be a range of different qualities out there.

We replaced old out-of-keeping aluminium windows with double glazed wooden sashes in our Victorian house. What a pain they are. Most of the windows now won’t open or close because the sash cords have broken - I think due to the weight of the double glass. And they still are draughty. And the maintenance… The upvc sash windows weren’t around then but now most of our neighbours have replaced their windows with these and they look great.

Round here the best company by far is called Derwent Sash windows- not sure exactly which heritage windows they use, but I think they look great. My parents have them. They are NOT cheap though.

Planning permission is not required to replace existing timber windows with uPVC for a single dwelling house (the design of the new frames do not have to be the same as the previous ones). Planning permission is require for the same situation on buildings in use as flats or commercial properties.

If you are planning to sell I would think twice.

I hate UPVC windows and they never look like real wood.

I've had double glazed wooden sash units put into mine plus the boxes refurbished and the price was similar to the pvc sash ones. Look for a small local company who specialises in wood ones and the cost won't be much different. The original ones that were there when i moved in had lasted over a hundred years - there's no reason why these won't also. They're better to look at, from inside especially, better for the planet, better for being in keeping with the house and the area.