What would you do?

[HerosAreUs]

Hi all

I'll try not to waffle on too much.
I can't decide what to do with the situation I am in.
I am in a same sex relationship. We are married with 3 boys. 5, 3 and 18months. Our 5 yr old is autistic, our 3 yr old has a disability and 18month old a handful. My wife runs her own business and i am a stay at home mum and look after the children.
Life is pretty stressful.
Prior to children we had the best relationship. We've been together for 15 years and we had such an amazing spark and our honeymoon period lasted about 8 years. She then had to go on medication and a side effect of this was a decrease in sex drive.
My issue is this... me and my wife have absolutely no intimacy at all. Absolutely zilch. I don't even care about sex but you can still be intimate without having sex.
if I move in for a cuddle in bed then we will have a cuddle and if I go in for a kiss then she will give me a quick peck. But nothing more and never anything more than this. If I don't try and cuddle or kiss then we will go all day without any physical contact. She works her butt off and is an amazing mum so it just feels as though by the time it gets to me, her wide. She has nothing left to give.
It has been like this for some time now.
I completely understand that our lives are so busy and incredibly stressful at the moment with the kids so little and her working her butt off etc but surely you'd want to be close with your wife?
We do get on well and we have a laugh etc but nothing physical.
It really upsets me cos I do still want all these things despite being so stressed out with the kids. I'd love nothing more than to share a lovely snuggle and a kiss in the evening and definitely would love for it to go further if in the mood.
I have spoken to her about it numerous times and even asked if she still fancies me and still loves me etc. She has said she still wants to be with me but she's just so exhausted and stressed out that she needs space in the evenings.
Our last chat about this, I literally broke down in tears and said I can't carry on with how things are cos it literally just feels like we are 2 friends raising kids. And it breaks my heart that we have lost our spark. I've lost all my confidence too. I said I was prepared to put effort in to making us physically closer and she said she would try as well. We agreed to one evening a week for each other and we do whatever the other one wants. For example, a nice massage with candles and music etc.
I have stuck to my side of the agreement and so did she for a few weeks but has fizzled out back to normal. I've been waiting for my massage for 3 weeks now. If I mention it she blows up and says how tired she is blah blah.
Anyways this has been going on for some time now and round and round in circles.
I have come to the understanding that things will never change.
So what do I do? ... do I stay in this relationship or leave?

It's so difficult with the children etc.
I have no where to go either. My wife is the one with the money so I couldn't move out and I have no parents to go stay with.

I really don't know what to do.

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way and suck it up and get on with it
Or
I am not being unreasonable and anyone else would feel the same.

Forgot to say that I'm not interested in being with anyone else. All I want is for my relationship with wife back on track as we used to be so close. But I have tried and tried but the effort just isn't being returned and I've come to accept that things will never change. So I have 2 options... stay or leave.

Well it's gone from being an icy chill to a deep freeze in your relationship.

Personally, I couldn't live with no affection and warmth.

Sex is one thing but the every day moments of affection are incredibly important to me.

You have to sit down together again and tell her that you can't continue being frozen out.

I’ll probably get a bit of a flaming for this but I actually don’t think two friends raising kids is a bad thing, especially in the early days.

Forced intimacy is horrible for both parties and fairly or otherwise the more one tries to get close by cuddling, kissing and so on often the more the other resists.

As for whether you stay or not it is up to you but with three very young children, two with significant needs, it isn’t surprising intimacy has taken a back burner and that is just how it is, it doesn’t mean it will never come back but there really are few things less attractive than one partner complaining constantly about it.

I think it would be horrible to raised by parents who don't show each other any affection.

Of course forced affection is wrong but it's also incredibly sad when someone craves the warmth of a partner and they don't receive any.

Children will pick up on their parents lack of affection and it may change their own behaviour.

I don’t actually think that’s true to be honest.

I don’t think most parents, especially with very young children, are constantly kissing and cuddling and so on. I’m sure some people will come on to correct me and maybe some relationships are just very different but I’ve certainly never done in for that myself and even if I did practicalities take over. Am I going to hold my husbands hand when my sons nose needs wiping? Are we going to cuddle and kiss while the baby grizzles in her high chair? Are we going to snuggle on the sofa and ignore the days carnage? It’s time, and that’s very sparse with little children, it’s just how it is.

Only the OP knows what’s the best way forwards but I certainly don’t think a friendly and respectful relationship is a negative environment for any child to be raised in. And while I agree children can pick up on tensions I do think everyone has a different amount of physical touch needs (badly phrased I know) and it isn’t harmful to be raised in a home where one parents’ needs are at the lesser end of things.

It’s really easy to say oh yeah leave, you deserve more blah blah but it isn’t what I sincerely believe.

@Decemberandjuly firstly, I don't complain about it all the time. I've brought up the issue on 3 occasions the last 9 months because I am upset about it. I don't force intimacy. Purely just show my wife affection when I want to give her a cuddle.

Of course I understand when having young children your own needs go to the back of the pile but to want a physical relationship with your wife isn't an unreasonable want.

I just wanted to know what others would do in my situation.

It's a really tricky one, but it seems to me you're being a bit premature considering leaving the relationship. It sounds like you'd be away if you had more money or family, but it doesn't sound like you've both really tried to work through this. Your kids are very little, and if the lack of intimacy is due to medication that can be a very difficult thing to work through for your poor wife. There are things available that can help - counselling would be a good place to start, but she'd need to engage. I read a book that could be helpful, it's called Mind the Gap by Dr Karen Gurney. From memory it may be more useful in heterosexual relationships, but a lot of the information is relevant regardless. Scheduling sex and intimacy doesn't work for everyone, it can put people right off. Honestly I don't think you've tried hard enough to sort it, so if you're looking for encouragement to leave the relationship I'm not going to give it.

@ALittleBitAlexa you're wrong. The last thing I want is to leave this relationship. I love my wife more than anything and I am feeling I've given all I can give and tried for years, yes years to sort our intimacy issue.
But I have tried and tried but the effort isn't being returned. That is the problem.
I don't think she will ever make the effort as we've been going round in circles about the same problem for years and nothing changes. I try but if it isn't returned then I can't do any more.

@ALittleBitAlexa also she isn't on that medication anymore. I mentioned it as that was the start of our issues.

Hi OP

3 young kids is very intense and I think it's normal for intimacy to reduce in these years. Esepcially for women, when hormones can change (i feel very differently about sex in my 40s to how i did in my 20s). Saying that, you can still be affectionate eg hold hands, cuddle etc (no one is 'too tired' for a cuddle surely!) and I'm not surprised you're upset if she can't even give you this. But you can't make her be affectionate, you can just focus on how you deal with it.

Personally I'd bide my time, things might look a lot different when the youngest two are 4 and 6. In the mean time I'd be strengthening my position so that life could possibly work if I was single, and then you can make a decision in the future about whether you want to leave, without the practicalities (how will I survive) clouding things. I'd look at your wife reducing her hours or switching jobs if she is so knackered and stressed, and you getting back into work. This wil give you options and also increase your confidence. And also might make her see you differently, give you new things to talk about etc. I know this may be difficult with the additional needs your children have but could you both do part time if one of you need to be there for the children? This often works out better for tax reasons even if earnings aren't that similar

I'd also see if she would do some counselling to keep the lines of communication open and stop you drifting further apart

@HerosAreUs Okay apologies, I misunderstood the timescale, when you mentioned 9 months I thought that was how long it had been an issue for. What have you tried to sort the intimacy issues? Have you had counselling, either alone or as a couple? I really would suggest the book I recommended, it gives various strategies to try and was recommended to me by a psychiatrist. Not all will be suitable for everyone. It would be most useful for you both to read it, but it might help if even you just read it.

Just because she's no longer on the medication doesn't mean she'll necessarily be 'back to normal. Loss of libido, regardless of cause, can persist far longer than the trigger and once you're in the cycle of not having sex, not wanting sex, not thinking about sex, it can be really hard to reset. Not to mention the fact you've had three children in that time so perhaps one or both of you have been through pregnancy, labour and recovery.

Yabu. You've agreed one day a week is for intimacy but you haven't suggested anything to remove the cause of the exhaustion. She's working to house & feed five people on her own with no backup or safety net. That's a pretty heavy responsibility. No wonder she's flat out and exhausted.

Can you suggest she does half day on Fridays and half day on Saturday, so Friday afternoon she has some space and wind down time, goes to the gym or out for a walk/run and some fresh air, and then you ask a family member to look after the dcs for the evening.

Arrange an easy indulgent supper, plenty of hot water & bubbles for a bath and a decent film. Then wait for her to initiate intimacy, even if it takes a few weeks. Let her come to you.

@ALittleBitAlexa @DrinkFeckArseBrick I don't even care about the sex. Yes that would be great but all I'm concerned about at the moment is affection and intimacy. For example... I went to give a cuddle yesterday and she said... what's wrong? As if there needs to be a reason to cuddle.
I have mentioned counselling before and she doesn't feel it would help.
I honestly just feel there isn't anything else I can do my side and that for now I can't see things changing and this makes me so sad.
I feel I need more from my relationship.
I think we are both frustrated by our current situation. When I feel low I need warmth and affection where as she needs space. So you're right, maybe in time as the kids grow things might be different. But I don't think I can wait that long to find out.
My self confidence and self esteem drops a little more with every rejection and I am becoming depressed because of it and she knows this but yet still won't make effort in the relationship.
We are hoping to get the younger children into nursery so that I can get back to work but as yet haven't found one that we feel is suitable for our disabled child.
I feel I need some space to work out what I want but I have nowhere to go.

the time with 3 kids under 6 is a time of chaos and just trying to keep your head above water. for me & DH, intimacy and time for each other was much harder at that stage.

but as the kids get older and easier, it can get better. don't lose hope, just hang in there.

are you both on the same page with parenting / running the house / managing life? or are there other sources of friction besides the (lack of) cuddles?

@HerosAreUs often people who are avoiding sex avoid any forms of intimacy, because it can lead to more or can put pressure on them for it to lead to more. Seriously, you should read that book.

Your posts are all about you and what you need.

Your wife hasn’t done anything wrong, it just sounds like she is exhausted and frazzled from working with 3 young DC.
If you value your relationship you need to understand your wife’s feelings and try and understand where she is coming from.
It sounds like you had a happy relationship pre-DC and that will probably return in time. If you leave you could end up with absolutely nothing and no chance of a relationship with someone else. In your circumstances I wouldn’t risk what you have.

@parietal
Yes luckily we are on the same page with parenting and running the house etc.
We get on so well in every other way which us what makes our situation so upsetting. But its good to know things improved for you guys. I really hope the same for us.
We've been together for 16 years and I can't imagine spending my life with anyone else. I don't want anyone else. I just want my wife and for us to he happy but right now I'm the only one trying to make things work and I'm at the end. It's not going to work if she doesn't try too.

You have three children under 5 and she is solely responsible for financially supporting the entire family. I don't think the relationship could survive forever if nothing changes, but I also don't think this is the right time to make any big decisions.

In a few years (if you don't have more children) things will be easier. The children will be in school or nursery and you can work at least part time so she is under less stress and you have more adult company other than her.

Basically this is a stage everyone struggles with.

@Meadowfinch she works full time because she wants to. Ideally we would both work part time but she can't deal with the hospital apps and physio etc that come with our disabled child. So we agreed that for now I deal with the kids and she works.
Honestly I do all I can to make my wife happy.
I give foot rubs in the evening. Head massage. I'm a hairdresser so do her hair whenever she wants to make her feel better in herself.
Always make an effort to cook nice meals.
I take the kids out so she can nap on days off if she's tired.
I've even booked her a weekend away with her mum so she can have some time out.
Surprise trips for her bday. You name it, i do it.
I'm a very good wife that makes so much effort to make her happy!!

@WHID I haven't said my wife's done anything wrong.
I try so hard to make my wife happy in every way. If you read previous posts. But the effort isn't returned and I don't think it will change any time soon.
I've asked what you'd do if in my position not for a slagging match of what a selfish wife I am.
I am so awful for wanting some affection from my wife.
Literally everything I do is for my wife and my children.

I agree with the PP about two friends raising kids… for a time… not necessarily being a bad thing. You not only have 3 young children, but each of them sounds (forgive me if I’m wrong) to be challenging in their own way currently. I really think you might find things improve in time. Is there any way at all of getting a night away without kids for the two of you? I found this really helped me and DH reconnect when we were going through a somewhat similar patch.

When I feel low I need warmth and affection where as she needs space.
DH & I are like this except I’m the one who needs space. It used to be a source of friction but now we just laugh about it and say he’s a dog, I’m a cat. And we are very vocal and honest about it, and by being so, I actually find I want to be more affectionate with him (as I was pre having three small kids!) because there just doesn’t feel like there’s any pressure at all.