that this is not gender equality?

[thefatladyissinging]

A Cambridge College is scrapping its mixed voice choir because they have allowed women to join the previously male-only chapel choir. Except that no sopranos can join, because they still have child trebles. Oh, and a maximum of three altos can join. So there will be nowhere for the vast majority of adult women to sing in the college, but this is OK because...?? Nope, it escapes me. And the choir they are scrapping is AMAZING - click on the link embedded in this article about it to hear their beautiful music link from Classic FM

How bizarre. Why is it being scrapped? The article doesn’t explain it. Cost reasons?

It’s the kind of progress the patriarchy likes- the kind that looks good on the surface but actually removes opportunities for women.

Because now they have allowed women into the previously male-only choir, they say it is unnecessary. Equality has been achieved. Except of course that it hasn't, because a maximum of 3 women in the whole choir isn't what equality looks like.

Sorry, that was in reply to Wardrobes. But female voices are now in a WORSE position than they were before they allowed women to join the all-male choir because there's nowhere for them to go

I'm confused by this. Generally choirs and Choral Socs at a university are organised by the students (via the student union) themselves like any other student society or club - how does the college get a say in it?

Not in Oxbridge where the bigger colleges (and most smaller colleges) fund this sort of thing. Which you may or may not agree with, but if it exists, it should surely exist for women as much as for men.

@thefatladyissinging thanks for explaining. And yes, it seems a remarkably wrong-headed decision, and one I suspect that was made without anyone even thinking of doing an equalities impact assessment or speaking to the legal department who I imagine would have reminded them of their obligations under the Equality Act 2010. Oh well, I'm sure there will be some law students in the choir who will relish the chance to get this decision scrutinised by the EHRC.

there's a petition available on change.org if you search, trying to reverse this

I think it's less about an equality issue and more about an anti-elite issue, as they say they are cutting funding so that they can support other projects instead with wider genres, and they've just focused on the gender equality thing as an excuse. (They could well afford all of it if they chose). The whoe point of a choir like this is to give loads of students opportunities to sing without the intensity and commitment of the chapel choir. The master of St John's isn't interested in music at all and has cut other music opportunities there as well, which is a real shame - the previous master was much more supportive

Yes, have signed petition. I just don't see why women shouldn't have access to the best quality experience - why do they have to have an inferior quality choir? That's not widening participation! They need excellence for women AND other opportunties and with literally hundreds of millions in their bank accounts they could easily do this. What's the problem with the master not to want this for her students? Isn't that her job?

For those who were interested in this - there was a great thing on Radio 4 at lunchtime www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001xfwg at 13.30 - I am so invested in this now 😂

Yes I randomly happened to hear that today, and thought it was good - they focused on some of the unique aspects of the choir, as well as the gender equality bit. The petition is gaining traction online with some notable signatories, so i hope it succeeds. It's a shame that the management at St John's has so little interest in music and regards it as old-fashioned or elitist and used the gender thing as an excuse to get rid of it. They have no idea how much benefit people get from singing in a choir, and how they don't have to be religious to find it an amazing experience, how classical music can be for everyone, how much joy it brought many people.

@CityCentre
It's a shame that the management at St John's has so little interest in music and regards it as old-fashioned or elitist and used the gender thing as an excuse to get rid of it.

The irony of a Cambridge college - and a prominent one at that- thinking that something is elitist.

Girls have recently been able to join the chapel choir (definitely an elite one as it's world class) thus halving the number of places for boys. They could have, like in most cathedrals of which they are on a par, had separate girls' and boys' top lines, giving opportunities to more of both sexes. The reason certainly didn't seem based on finances.

And now the excellent student choir is dumped unceremoniously for reasons which are neither musical nor about equal opportunities. Depressing.

Indeed. It's very frustrating. I'm a former member of college, and got a huge amount out of my musical experiences there. It's one of the reasons that I quickly felt 'at home', despite always being the classical-music weirdo before.

There seems to be no financial reason the couldn't continue; nor is it about equal opportunities for girls/women. It seems mainly to be about image, and the mistaken impression by those who don't know much about music that choral music is old-fashioned and inaccessible, despite this choir doing a great deal to prove the opposite!

Especially depressing that it's the first female master who seems to be behind it!

CityCentre, do you think there is any point writing to the master about the decision she has made?

I think it probably won't make much difference, but it's always worth a try! I know that lots of people have written. I thikn she's just not interested in classical music and has no idea what a blow this is.

However there is a new dean coming soon and i wonder what she makes of this decision or if she had any input