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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbour and his measuring tape

55 replies

Fannycakes · 18/03/2024 20:03

We are currently building an extension on the back of our house. It’s 5m x 4.5m so a decent size but nothing extravagant. We are in a semi detached property, and the builders have temporarily removed the fence between our garden and next door while the extension is built stepped in slightly from the boundary line.

This afternoon, my husband caught sight out of the window of my NDN’s adult son (lady next door is elderly and her son I think is in his late 40’s) standing inside the foundations of our new extension measuring the width and length. My husband had our son with him and didn’t want to confront NDN in case it kicked off, so watched as about a minute later, he hopped out and back into their side of the boundary through where the fence used to be.

WTF was he doing??

We wrote to them prior to getting planning permission to let them know we were planning a build and included a printed copy of our plans, and invited them to come and chat to us providing our number and the times we are usually available for a chat during the week. We didn’t hear anything so DH popped his head over the front drive fence about week later when he saw one of NDN’s children (she has 4 kids) and asked if they’d received the letter to which he said ‘yes we did and all looks fine although I’ll check with the others’. We heard nothing else, so applied for planning permission 2 weeks later. Next door were written to during planning to ask for formal objections but no objections were received and planning was granted 6 weeks later.

The build is the right size, we have had the building inspector out to check the hole for the footings and he’ll be out again tomorrow to check the DPC before the concrete slab goes in.

Im confident we’ve satisfied our legal and moral duty to inform next door about the build and gave them ample opportunity to object - what happens if they object now??

OP posts:
Fannycakes · 18/03/2024 21:12

I got a reply from the architect (I’m also impressed he picked up my email and responded after hours)

he says:
Party wall is a common law matter and completely separate from planning. As long as your new footings don't protrude over the legal boundary (as drawn) I don't think there is any requirement for a party wall notice/agreement in this situation. In addition a party wall agreement is an enabling act which works in the favour of the person completing the work and doesn't give the neighbour the opportunity to stop the work at all. It just specifies particular details about the build within the agreement ie timings etc and making good by the person carrying out the work. As stated above my view is that a party wall notice wasn't required to be served as long as all works have remained on your side of the boundary (inc. foundations)?

Have you spoken to them as to what their concerns are? I am happy to speak to them if required however they will no doubt seek their own advice.

I’ve asked him to confirm tomorrow when he’s back in the office and has double checked.

OP posts:
Mumaway · 18/03/2024 21:12

A party wall agreement does NOT apply to fenced boundaries, only parts of the building or a built structure/wall. Don't panic!

EeesandWhizz · 18/03/2024 21:16

Are you sure about the 3m thing? I thought a party wall was an actual physical thing (not necessarily a wall) shared between 2 or more people, not an expanse of ground next to a boundary.

Fannycakes · 18/03/2024 21:21

Mumaway · 18/03/2024 21:12

A party wall agreement does NOT apply to fenced boundaries, only parts of the building or a built structure/wall. Don't panic!

No part of our build interacts with their actual wall but it is within 3m of the foundations of their house and our foundations are definitely deeper than the original houses (they’re old). The extension doesn’t run alongside a wall of theirs, just along the fence line between the 2 gardens - I’m so confused!

OP posts:
ilovebreadsauce · 18/03/2024 21:48

Well he was fairly obviously checking the extension wasn't bigger than the plans

84wood · 18/03/2024 21:51

Architect is skating around. If you are within 3m you should have got one but didn’t.

It is separate to planning but part of the building process. He won’t have done one but he should have flagged particularly if you’re new to this that you need on.

party walls can’t stop work but define the terms.

I’d probably keep my head down and hope. A neighbour did a work and we never actioned.

But line up some party wall surveyor in case.

citrinetrilogy · 18/03/2024 21:54

It probably looks a lot bigger in real life than they thought it would be, so they wanted to check. Fair enough really.

Greenbike · 18/03/2024 22:12

A bit off topic but can I ask OP why such a big extension? If your garden is 8m long and you’re building over 5m of it you’re not going to have much garden left. When we were buying a house recently there were so many with a massive kitchen extension built over the garden, with just a sliver of yard left, and it seemed so sad. We actively looked for a house with a proper garden and there were so few of them, we ended up having to pay a bit extra to get one that hadn’t been extended.

Ulysees · 18/03/2024 22:14

Lifebeganat50 · 18/03/2024 20:30

Stop writing bloody letters and go and have a conversatIon! It’s no wonder they feel they have to speak about with measuring tapes if you won’t just speak to them

This. Just talk to them.

Freakinfraser · 18/03/2024 22:22

My understanding is your architect is right op.

anyways I suspect it just looks big and the son is checking it’s as per planning, i would not be concerned. They didn’t object and the kids will have seen the letters.

TheSoundThatIWasHearing · 18/03/2024 22:29

It probably just looks bigger than they were expecting and wanted to check the build. If relationships are good, let it go. It's not unreasonable given the noise and disruption you are causing.

Toddlerteaplease · 18/03/2024 22:57

Did you ask them for permission to remove the fence. I wouldn't be very happy about that. As it would affect the security of my house.

Toddlerteaplease · 18/03/2024 22:58

FawnFrenchieMum · 18/03/2024 20:30

Maybe they are planning something similar and wanted to see how it measured up. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. You have permission so nothing to worry about.

That was actually my first thought.

slippedonabanana · 18/03/2024 23:14

ilovebreadsauce · 18/03/2024 21:48

Well he was fairly obviously checking the extension wasn't bigger than the plans

Yes, this.

Sounds like a nightmare for the neighbours to have the fence down and probably builders walking about on their side, plus the new extension almost the full length of their garden.

PlanningTowns · 18/03/2024 23:46

The thing that stands out is that you think the noisy / messy part is over!!! Wait until they tie the brickwork in and roof!

HaveringGold · 19/03/2024 00:00

I suspect it's looking bigger than they anticipated, and either the neighbour or her kids are suspicious you've gone past the plans. Sometimes plans on paper look OK but seeing the actually work in the ground is unsettling.

Could have been the neighbour panicking and her son measuring up to reassure her, could be them reassuring themselves. As you don't seem to have a strong relationship, they may have wanted to do this rather than flag you in what you might interpret as an aggressive manner. Given your fence is down and the builders are probably hopping over the boundary they probably didn't see it as rude to do the same.

Lurkingandlearning · 19/03/2024 00:34

Thelondonone · 18/03/2024 20:29

Ate you building within 3m of the boundary? If so you need to organise and pay for a party wall agreement. He can have work stopped. If you haven’t sorted then I’d get on it asap and be very very nice.

☝️

Fannycakes · 19/03/2024 06:32

Greenbike · 18/03/2024 22:12

A bit off topic but can I ask OP why such a big extension? If your garden is 8m long and you’re building over 5m of it you’re not going to have much garden left. When we were buying a house recently there were so many with a massive kitchen extension built over the garden, with just a sliver of yard left, and it seemed so sad. We actively looked for a house with a proper garden and there were so few of them, we ended up having to pay a bit extra to get one that hadn’t been extended.

Our garden is quite wide so it leaves us with about 80sqm still - enough for a large patio area and a lawn. Currently the garden is lawn and a lot of beds which are over grown and a pain to maintain all summer. We are not gardeners. Large extension is because this is a 4 bed semi, but downstairs there’s only the kitchen which isn’t massive and then one large reception room which used to be a separate lounge and small dining room but a previous owner knocked them together. The extension is on the back of the dining room and we will be reinstating the wall between the existing dining room and lounge. The extension will be a new living room/ play room where we will spend the majority of our time in the day, and we will now have a separate lounge area free from toddler chaos where we can relax. It’s also likely that one or both of us will become disabled as we age for a range of reasons and since we plan to stay here as long as possible, eventually the separate lounge could become a bedroom to enable us to live downstairs. Once our son is older and we no longer need a play room, DH is a musician so the extension will likely become more of a music room. We’ve had sound insulation added to the plans for this reason.

We plan to live here all our lives (we’ve been here 5 years and have spent that time living in the space understanding the changes we need in that time, this isn’t the only thing we’re planning although is the biggest job) and won’t be considering moving again, so it was important to us the space worked for us and how we live.

OP posts:
Fannycakes · 19/03/2024 06:35

slippedonabanana · 18/03/2024 23:14

Yes, this.

Sounds like a nightmare for the neighbours to have the fence down and probably builders walking about on their side, plus the new extension almost the full length of their garden.

The builders haven’t been on their side at all, no need to as the extension is stepped in from the boundary line enough that they can walk the other side.

The builders got permission from them to take the fence down (it’s our fence and wasn’t in good repair, needed replacing anyway).

The only inconvenience for them is when one of the children is over they have a dog and usually let it out the back. Now he has to bring the dog out on a lead to the garden for 5 mins while he’s visiting which will be annoying.

OP posts:
Fannycakes · 19/03/2024 06:37

Toddlerteaplease · 18/03/2024 22:57

Did you ask them for permission to remove the fence. I wouldn't be very happy about that. As it would affect the security of my house.

Yes the builders did - it’s the fence between the houses and there is brick wall at the back and a 9ft drop behind the back wall. The only loss of security is from our garden into theirs, but we both have electric gates at the front of our houses and locked gates entering our gardens so it’s no less secure from other people than it was before.

OP posts:
Fannycakes · 19/03/2024 06:43

HaveringGold · 19/03/2024 00:00

I suspect it's looking bigger than they anticipated, and either the neighbour or her kids are suspicious you've gone past the plans. Sometimes plans on paper look OK but seeing the actually work in the ground is unsettling.

Could have been the neighbour panicking and her son measuring up to reassure her, could be them reassuring themselves. As you don't seem to have a strong relationship, they may have wanted to do this rather than flag you in what you might interpret as an aggressive manner. Given your fence is down and the builders are probably hopping over the boundary they probably didn't see it as rude to do the same.

I suspect you’re right - although because the extension is stepped in a bit from the boundary the builders haven’t needed to go to their side. The fence had to come down to give the digger room without knocking it down anyway.

OP posts:
Fannycakes · 19/03/2024 06:47

PlanningTowns · 18/03/2024 23:46

The thing that stands out is that you think the noisy / messy part is over!!! Wait until they tie the brickwork in and roof!

Oh god - there is currently a 6ft high pile of earth on my drive due to be removed today and I’ve been so looking forwards to the builder jet washing the drive and the road to get rid of all the sand and dirt we keep tracking in on our shoes off the drive Sad

For us the worst but will be when they knock through but I think we’re going to move out for a week!

OP posts:
converseandjeans · 19/03/2024 07:53

That's a huge extension & a lot of noise & disruption for several months. They sound like they have been really tolerant. Just the noise of the digger would drive me mad - there was an extension being done during lockdown just behind our house. I was trying to work & every time the digger reversed it made a huge beeping noise. It was so annoying.

BigBrotherDoesntKnowWhatACelebrityIs · 19/03/2024 08:51

I mean, the polite route is definitely the smart way to go.

However, if I saw them I’d probably politely ask they don’t just fucking walk into my garden tbh. Fence or no fence, that’s just rude. They’ve had the ability to object/say no to fence removal, so they don’t have the right to just walk onto your property because they fancy measuring something.

Fannycakes · 19/03/2024 11:09

converseandjeans · 19/03/2024 07:53

That's a huge extension & a lot of noise & disruption for several months. They sound like they have been really tolerant. Just the noise of the digger would drive me mad - there was an extension being done during lockdown just behind our house. I was trying to work & every time the digger reversed it made a huge beeping noise. It was so annoying.

It’s not really ‘huge’ - 5m x 4.5m so yes a decent sized room but to me, ‘huge’ would be a massive wrap around or an extension the full length of the house etc. it’s basically a conservatory (although we chose to build as an extension not a conservatory so it’s of more use to us).

I do totally understand though thst we are causing disruption. Today is the last day the digger will be here (it’s been here 2 days previously).

The builder says he spoke to the son yesterday as they were blocking our neighbours drive temporarily - builder apologised and the son was apparently fine with them? Didn’t mention anything.

OP posts: