To not get an electric car?

[Jamesblema]

I was keen to get one as our second car (small-ish run around mainly for DH to do his 25 min commute every week day - we have a larger family car).

My main reasons were the savings on running costs and the benefit to the environment. I figured we could spend 6-8k on the car and then we would save massively on petrol costs. However, taking to the men at our local garage has put me off- they said that electricity costs are almost as much as petrol and repairs on electric cars require specialist mechanics and can be massively more expensive especially when something goes wrong with the battery. They also said that the estimated remaining mileage is often more than you actually have left and you can easily run out of charge and need to stop for over an hour to charge up. The cost of buying a hybrid is putting me off that option too.

So aibu to keep my petrol car at the cost of the environment? Any positive electric car experiences?

They do. They make a spaceship sort of noise. It’s the only way I can describe it.

Interestingly Volvo, who sell the XC40 in ICE and electric versions, have commissioned a study on the cradle-to-grave emissions of the two variants. That shows that over the life of the vehicle (defined as 200,000Kms) the EV generates as little as half the emissions of the ICE version.

The Carbon Footprint of a XC40 ICE is 58 tonnes CO2e, whereas the footprint for the XC40 Recharge is between 27–54 tonnes CO2e depending on the source of the electricity (page 4 - executive summary)

volvo-cars-lca-report-xc40.pdf (volvocars.com)

I'm absolutely not an EV fan but actually I think that I would consider getting one for what you describe. If you can charge it at home and are using it for for regular local trips I wouldn't worry too much about what your local garage guys say, I think it would be fine.

The main downsides for me are the big question mark over depreciation - they are expensive to buy and it's doesn't seem to be clear how the second hand market works yet. When/if the battery goes that's big money. The green credentials have been overstated.

I get the impression that people who don't really like driving prefer them, but that's just a feeling.

My worry is that we are trying to solve a 'now' problem, but not actually looking at the future. This Harvard Business Review paper talks about all the 'green' products that are now starting to go into landfill: solar panels (replaced early to maximise the individual benefits of newer efficiency); wind turbine blades; electric vehicle batteries - ALL going into landfill.

The potential of electric cars is great, lower costs if linked with a home with solar panels. But what in 10/15/20 years time? Where will all that debris go?

I wouldn’t touch one with a bargepole
i love my fiesta, yells at me when it needs juice 10 mins later I’ve got a tank full. Electric still needs to be produced from something , wind and solar are not truly reliable

Electric cars do make a noise, especially at low speeds under 20km. I can always hear when dh arrives home as it makes that slow ‘spaceship whoosh’ noise someone above describes. It mainly makes it slow so you notice when cars slowly pull out of driveways or corners or in car parks etc.

Nope, not for me. I’ll be clinging onto my petrol car as long as I can.
The U.K. isn’t anywhere near geared up for EV yet. My car park at work holds 2000 cars. There are 5 EV charging points 🙄

I went out with a friend who has an EV a few weeks ago and we couldn’t find a charge point where we parked for the day. There were 4 but 2 were broken and the other 2 in use. We had to stop to charge the car on the way at some services. Took ages as no Fast chargers available. Ended up having to just charge it as much as we could in the time we had and it went into limp mode on the way back 🫣

There is no second hand market for EV. Dealers don’t want them back as the new battery cost out weighs the resale value.

Aesthetically the Tesla has to be THE most boring car ever invented.

No matter how many people try to tell me they are saving the planet by moving to EV, it’s all a load of 💩

They definitely have lower environmental impact over the cradle to cradle lifecycle.

There's a useful series in the Guardian examining electric car myths and reality https://www.theguardian.com/business/series/ev-mythbusters. Basically they catch fire less than petrol/diesel, over the whole life cycle they produce lower carbon emissions and they do cost less to run if you can charge at home. We own an old Nissan Leaf and rent a Kia inero. Electric cars are fantastic to drive. Charging infrastructure is getting much better. There is less to go wrong with them so generally they are good for servicing/MOT costs. On the minus side if they do go wrong they can be expensive to fix and getting parts can be difficult and the cost to buy or lease one can make them too expensive. We wouldn't go back to petrol/diesel. You do have to decide if it suits your lifestyle as they won't suit everyone at the moment.

EVs are more environmentally friendly the ICEs. You're mistaken.

Why do you think the batteries will be disposed of? (Clue = they won't)

Depends.
If you know hat you're getting into, it's OK.
Get as new a version as you can afford for longer range if that's important to you.
DP finds his company car an absolute pain in the arse. It takes ages to charge and barely covers his long commute. In winter, he has to switch the heating in it off some days to get home.
If we go anywhere for the day, I drive in my diesel. He has to always be thinking and planning ahead.
Don't be too put off though if you just want it for short journeys or you can get a newer one.

Had one of my petrol cars for 19 years. Hope to get it past 30. Not sure your claim sticks in that scenario.

We purchased our BMW i3 (fully) electric car 9 years ago (2nd hand) as a second car for school runs & commuting. It has now done over 125,000 miles and the battery is as good as the day we got it - it's a very small battery in comparison with newer models (we get 80 miles in hot weather & about 55 miles in cold, dark weather) so we watch it carefully & regularly arrive home to our charger in the winter with 2-3 miles left.

It has very few moving parts so only needs servicing every 2 years (unlike a hybrid which has both the issues and weight of two engines) & the most we've ever paid for work on it is this year's service as we need a suspension strut replacing (£375 at our local garage incl the service.) Until April we haven't had to pay any car tax - this will rise to £20 pa next month. We (along with Tesla drivers) own our battery as well as the car, so have the option of recycling it as a power wall for home storage should it start to lose efficiency or we could assess the battery and replace any dodgy cells for about £3k each - still cheaper than a new car.

It's a blast to drive when you're not watching the miles and comfortable & economic if you are. And no matter the arguments regarding electric car production green issues vs conventional cars, when sitting in traffic I'm barely using any electricity to keep the car ticking over & not polluting the air around me.

There are a lot of dodgy older EV cars about but if you do your research & buy one with 60-100 mile battery then you'll pick up a cheap to buy & cheap to use 2nd car with enough mileage for your DH's commute and as a run about. Can't recommend my BMW I3 60ah with Rapid Charging.

Anyone choosing a new car needs to consider what they need from that car.

We chose a low range EV (older Leaf) for my short commute and local journeys. It fulfils the brief perfectly. I've done over 10,000 miles in it, only ever charged it on my own driveway and never run out of power.

Actually no, electric car cradle is much worse than ICE cradle as many many studies have found.

Carbon is just one part of environmental cost and not the most significant current one.

That doesn't include the increased tyre and brake emissions. Not very realistic

They are definitely much cheaper - I would estimate about £5 per 250 miles instead of more like £50.

They are definitely greener - a proper international study has proven it, they are a little less green to make than a petrol car but after about 18 months they overtake petrol and over a lifetime (10-15 years) it's about 1/3 of the pollution of a petrol vehicle.

Pretty much everything you hear in the press is complete bunkum, lithium mining, etc etc.

EV's catch fire 9 times LESS than petrol vehicles.... mile for mile.

They are easier to fix and less likely to go wrong, they are much simpler than petrol engines.

Oh, and the batteries are holding out well, you have Teslas now with 250k miles on them, all good and 2013 leaf's still going strong.

I have driven to the Alps and Scotland (from London) with no issues.

You have to do your research on range but they definitely don't run out of battery "unexpectedly".

I have been driving various EV's since 2015 and we are a total EV family from 2020.

@jannier unfortunately everything you have written is untrue....

i personally wouldn’t but an electric car. Unfortunately we live in a terraced house and our garage is in a separate block but we aren’t allowed to run electricity in it so we couldn’t charge a car at home. No chargers at my work place so would be logistically tricky for us. I have a hybrid which I love. Friend who has an electric (company car) loves it though

This! Hardly an unbiased opinion...
We have had one for several years, no problems. About to change our 2nd car (diesel) for a hybrid.

But I can't morally support the mining in very poor countries by exploited people, purely so I can drive around in my wealthy and privileged country. For me, and this is my own moral line, it's unacceptable. Plus the environmental impact of end-of-life batteries is a major concern.

@timetochangethering Keep kidding yourself:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/06/1067272

The environmental impact is horrendous. Just because its not on our doorstep, doesn't mean we shouldn't care.
But a bit of greenwash is great for the economy.

I'm not entirely against electric cars. They have been a long time in the pipeline but technology isn't there along with the infrastructure.

Though many more studies show the reverse…

Men at local garages will always put you off electric cars as they need virtually no maintenance.

I could never go back to an ICE vehicle. Thèrs a lot of bullshit out there about electrics.