Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that J K Rowling was right in her predictions about what would happen to women and girls?

1000 replies

WandaWomblesaurus · 18/03/2024 09:19

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

10 JUNE 2020
J.K. Rowling Writes about Her Reasons for Speaking out on Sex and Gender Issues

Warning: The below content is not appropriate for children. Please check with an adult before you read this page. To go back to the children’s page, please click heree_.

This isn’t an easy piece to write, for reasons that will shortly become clear, but I know it’s time to explain myself on an issue surrounded by toxicity. I write this without any desire to add to that toxicity.

For people who don’t know: last December I tweeted my support for Maya Forstater, a tax specialist who’d lost her job for what were deemed ‘transphobic’ tweets. She took her case to an employment tribunal, asking the judge to rule on whether a philosophical belief that sex is determined by biology is protected in law. Judge Tayler ruled that it wasn’t.

My interest in trans issues pre-dated Maya’s case by almost two years, during which I followed the debate around the concept of gender identity closely. I’ve met trans people, and read sundry books, blogs and articles by trans people, gender specialists, intersex people, psychologists, safeguarding experts, social workers and doctors, and followed the discourse online and in traditional media. On one level, my interest in this issue has been professional, because I’m writing a crime series, set in the present day, and my fictional female detective is of an age to be interested in, and affected by, these issues herself, but on another, it’s intensely personal, as I’m about to explain.

All the time I’ve been researching and learning, accusations and threats from trans activists have been bubbling in my Twitter timeline. This was initially triggered by a ‘like’. When I started taking an interest in gender identity and transgender matters, I began screenshotting comments that interested me, as a way of reminding myself what I might want to research later. On one occasion, I absent-mindedly ‘liked’ instead of screenshotting. That single ‘like’ was deemed evidence of wrongthink, and a persistent low level of harassment began.

Months later, I compounded my accidental ‘like’ crime by following Magdalen Berns on Twitter. Magdalen was an immensely brave young feminist and lesbian who was dying of an aggressive brain tumour. I followed her because I wanted to contact her directly, which I succeeded in doing. However, as Magdalen was a great believer in the importance of biological sex, and didn’t believe lesbians should be called bigots for not dating trans women with penises, dots were joined in the heads of twitter trans activists, and the level of social media abuse increased.

I mention all this only to explain that I knew perfectly well what was going to happen when I supported Maya. I must have been on my fourth or fifth cancellation by then. I expected the threats of violence, to be told I was literally killing trans people with my hate, to be called cunt and bitch and, of course, for my books to be burned, although one particularly abusive man told me he’d composted them.

What I didn’t expect in the aftermath of my cancellation was the avalanche of emails and letters that came showering down upon me, the overwhelming majority of which were positive, grateful and supportive. They came from a cross-section of kind, empathetic and intelligent people, some of them working in fields dealing with gender dysphoria and trans people, who’re all deeply concerned about the way a socio-political concept is influencing politics, medical practice and safeguarding.

They’re worried about the dangers to young people, gay people and about the erosion of women’s and girl’s rights. Above all, they’re worried about a climate of fear that serves nobody – least of all trans youth – well.

I’d stepped back from Twitter for many months both before and after tweeting support for Maya, because I knew it was doing nothing good for my mental health. I only returned because I wanted to share a free children’s book during the pandemic. Immediately, activists who clearly believe themselves to be good, kind and progressive people swarmed back into my timeline, assuming a right to police my speech, accuse me of hatred, call me misogynistic slurs and, above all – as every woman involved in this debate will know – TERF.

If you didn’t already know – and why should you? – ‘TERF’ is an acronym coined by trans activists, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In practice, a huge and diverse cross-section of women are currently being called TERFs and the vast majority have never been radical feminists. Examples of so-called TERFs range from the mother of a gay child who was afraid their child wanted to transition to escape homophobic bullying, to a hitherto totally unfeminist older lady who’s vowed never to visit Marks & Spencer again because they’re allowing any man who says they identify as a woman into the women’s changing rooms. Ironically, radical feminists aren’t even trans-exclusionary – they include trans men in their feminism, because they were born women.

But accusations of TERFery have been sufficient to intimidate many people, institutions and organisations I once admired, who’re cowering before the tactics of the playground. ‘They’ll call us transphobic!’ ‘They’ll say I hate trans people!’ What next, they’ll say you’ve got fleas? Speaking as a biological woman, a lot of people in positions of power really need to grow a pair (which is doubtless literally possible, according to the kind of people who argue that clownfish prove humans aren’t a dimorphic species).

So why am I doing this? Why speak up? Why not quietly do my research and keep my head down?

Well, I’ve got five reasons for being worried about the new trans activism, and deciding I need to speak up.

Firstly, I have a charitable trust that focuses on alleviating social deprivation in Scotland, with a particular emphasis on women and children. Among other things, my trust supports projects for female prisoners and for survivors of domestic and sexual abuse. I also fund medical research into MS, a disease that behaves very differently in men and women. It’s been clear to me for a while that the new trans activism is having (or is likely to have, if all its demands are met) a significant impact on many of the causes I support, because it’s pushing to erode the legal definition of sex and replace it with gender.

The second reason is that I’m an ex-teacher and the founder of a children’s charity, which gives me an interest in both education and safeguarding. Like many others, I have deep concerns about the effect the trans rights movement is having on both.

The third is that, as a much-banned author, I’m interested in freedom of speech and have publicly defended it, even unto Donald Trump.

The fourth is where things start to get truly personal. I’m concerned about the huge explosion in young women wishing to transition and also about the increasing numbers who seem to be detransitioning (returning to their original sex), because they regret taking steps that have, in some cases, altered their bodies irrevocably, and taken away their fertility. Some say they decided to transition after realising they were same-sex attracted, and that transitioning was partly driven by homophobia, either in society or in their families.

Most people probably aren’t aware – I certainly wasn’t, until I started researching this issue properly – that ten years ago, the majority of people wanting to transition to the opposite sex were male. That ratio has now reversed. The UK has experienced a 4400% increase in girls being referred for transitioning treatment. Autistic girls are hugely overrepresented in their numbers.
The same phenomenon has been seen in the US. In 2018, American physician and researcher Lisa Littman set out to explore it. In an interview, she said:
‘Parents online were describing a very unusual pattern of transgender-identification where multiple friends and even entire friend groups became transgender-identified at the same time. I would have been remiss had I not considered social contagion and peer influences as potential factors.’
Littman mentioned Tumblr, Reddit, Instagram and YouTube as contributing factors to Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, where she believes that in the realm of transgender identification ‘youth have created particularly insular echo chambers.’
Her paper caused a furore. She was accused of bias and of spreading misinformation about transgender people, subjected to a tsunami of abuse and a concerted campaign to discredit both her and her work. The journal took the paper offline and re-reviewed it before republishing it. However, her career took a similar hit to that suffered by Maya Forstater. Lisa Littman had dared challenge one of the central tenets of trans activism, which is that a person’s gender identity is innate, like sexual orientation. Nobody, the activists insisted, could ever be persuaded into being trans.

The argument of many current trans activists is that if you don’t let a gender dysphoric teenager transition, they will kill themselves. In an article explaining why he resigned from the Tavistock (an NHS gender clinic in England) psychiatrist Marcus Evans stated that claims that children will kill themselves if not permitted to transition do not ‘align substantially with any robust data or studies in this area. Nor do they align with the cases I have encountered over decades as a psychotherapist.’

The writings of young trans men reveal a group of notably sensitive and clever people. The more of their accounts of gender dysphoria I’ve read, with their insightful descriptions of anxiety, dissociation, eating disorders, self-harm and self-hatred, the more I’ve wondered whether, if I’d been born 30 years later, I too might have tried to transition. The allure of escaping womanhood would have been huge. I struggled with severe OCD as a teenager. If I’d found community and sympathy online that I couldn’t find in my immediate environment, I believe I could have been persuaded to turn myself into the son my father had openly said he’d have preferred.

When I read about the theory of gender identity, I remember how mentally sexless I felt in youth. I remember Colette’s description of herself as a ‘mental hermaphrodite’ and Simone de Beauvoir’s words: ‘It is perfectly natural for the future woman to feel indignant at the limitations posed upon her by her sex. The real question is not why she should reject them: the problem is rather to understand why she accepts them.’
As I didn’t have a realistic possibility of becoming a man back in the 1980s, it had to be books and music that got me through both my mental health issues and the sexualised scrutiny and judgement that sets so many girls to war against their bodies in their teens. Fortunately for me, I found my own sense of otherness, and my ambivalence about being a woman, reflected in the work of female writers and musicians who reassured me that, in spite of everything a sexist world tries to throw at the female-bodied, it’s fine not to feel pink, frilly and compliant inside your own head; it’s OK to feel confused, dark, both sexual and non-sexual, unsure of what or who you are.

I want to be very clear here: I know transition will be a solution for some gender dysphoric people, although I’m also aware through extensive research that studies have consistently shown that between 60-90% of gender dysphoric teens will grow out of their dysphoria. Again and again I’ve been told to ‘just meet some trans people.’ I have: in addition to a few younger people, who were all adorable, I happen to know a self-described transsexual woman who’s older than I am and wonderful. Although she’s open about her past as a gay man, I’ve always found it hard to think of her as anything other than a woman, and I believe (and certainly hope) she’s completely happy to have transitioned. Being older, though, she went through a long and rigorous process of evaluation, psychotherapy and staged transformation. The current explosion of trans activism is urging a removal of almost all the robust systems through which candidates for sex reassignment were once required to pass. A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law. Many people aren’t aware of this.
We’re living through the most misogynistic period I’ve experienced. Back in the 80s, I imagined that my future daughters, should I have any, would have it far better than I ever did, but between the backlash against feminism and a porn-saturated online culture, I believe things have got significantly worse for girls. Never have I seen women denigrated and dehumanised to the extent they are now. From the leader of the free world’s long history of sexual assault accusations and his proud boast of ‘grabbing them by the pussy’, to the incel (‘involuntarily celibate’) movement that rages against women who won’t give them sex, to the trans activists who declare that TERFs need punching and re-educating, men across the political spectrum seem to agree: women are asking for trouble. Everywhere, women are being told to shut up and sit down, or else.

I’ve read all the arguments about femaleness not residing in the sexed body, and the assertions that biological women don’t have common experiences, and I find them, too, deeply misogynistic and regressive. It’s also clear that one of the objectives of denying the importance of sex is to erode what some seem to see as the cruelly segregationist idea of women having their own biological realities or – just as threatening – unifying realities that make them a cohesive political class. The hundreds of emails I’ve received in the last few days prove this erosion concerns many others just as much. It isn’t enough for women to be trans allies. Women must accept and admit that there is no material difference between trans women and themselves.

But, as many women have said before me, ‘woman’ is not a costume. ‘Woman’ is not an idea in a man’s head. ‘Woman’ is not a pink brain, a liking for Jimmy Choos or any of the other sexist ideas now somehow touted as progressive. Moreover, the ‘inclusive’ language that calls female people ‘menstruators’ and ‘people with vulvas’ strikes many women as dehumanising and demeaning. I understand why trans activists consider this language to be appropriate and kind, but for those of us who’ve had degrading slurs spat at us by violent men, it’s not neutral, it’s hostile and alienating.

Which brings me to the fifth reason I’m deeply concerned about the consequences of the current trans activism.

I’ve been in the public eye now for over twenty years and have never talked publicly about being a domestic abuse and sexual assault survivor. This isn’t because I’m ashamed those things happened to me, but because they’re traumatic to revisit and remember. I also feel protective of my daughter from my first marriage. I didn’t want to claim sole ownership of a story that belongs to her, too. However, a short while ago, I asked her how she’d feel if I were publicly honest about that part of my life, and she encouraged me to go ahead.

I’m mentioning these things now not in an attempt to garner sympathy, but out of solidarity with the huge numbers of women who have histories like mine, who’ve been slurred as bigots for having concerns around single-sex spaces.
I managed to escape my first violent marriage with some difficulty, but I’m now married to a truly good and principled man, safe and secure in ways I never in a million years expected to be. However, the scars left by violence and sexual assault don’t disappear, no matter how loved you are, and no matter how much money you’ve made. My perennial jumpiness is a family joke – and even I know it’s funny – but I pray my daughters never have the same reasons I do for hating sudden loud noises, or finding people behind me when I haven’t heard them approaching.

If you could come inside my head and understand what I feel when I read about a trans woman dying at the hands of a violent man, you’d find solidarity and kinship. I have a visceral sense of the terror in which those trans women will have spent their last seconds on earth, because I too have known moments of blind fear when I realised that the only thing keeping me alive was the shaky self-restraint of my attacker.

I believe the majority of trans-identified people not only pose zero threat to others, but are vulnerable for all the reasons I’ve outlined. Trans people need and deserve protection. Like women, they’re most likely to be killed by sexual partners. Trans women who work in the sex industry, particularly trans women of colour, are at particular risk. Like every other domestic abuse and sexual assault survivor I know, I feel nothing but empathy and solidarity with trans women who’ve been abused by men.

So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe. When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside. That is the simple truth.

On Saturday morning, I read that the Scottish government is proceeding with its controversial gender recognition plans, which will in effect mean that all a man needs to ‘become a woman’ is to say he’s one. To use a very contemporary word, I was ‘triggered’. Ground down by the relentless attacks from trans activists on social media, when I was only there to give children feedback about pictures they’d drawn for my book under lockdown, I spent much of Saturday in a very dark place inside my head, as memories of a serious sexual assault I suffered in my twenties recurred on a loop. That assault happened at a time and in a space where I was vulnerable, and a man capitalised on an opportunity. I couldn’t shut out those memories and I was finding it hard to contain my anger and disappointment about the way I believe my government is playing fast and loose with womens and girls’ safety.

Late on Saturday evening, scrolling through children’s pictures before I went to bed, I forgot the first rule of Twitter – never, ever expect a nuanced conversation – and reacted to what I felt was degrading language about women. I spoke up about the importance of sex and have been paying the price ever since. I was transphobic, I was a cunt, a bitch, a TERF, I deserved cancelling, punching and death. You are Voldemort said one person, clearly feeling this was the only language I’d understand.

It would be so much easier to tweet the approved hashtags – because of course trans rights are human rights and of course trans lives matter – scoop up the woke cookies and bask in a virtue-signalling afterglow. There’s joy, relief and safety in conformity. As Simone de Beauvoir also wrote, “… without a doubt it is more comfortable to endure blind bondage than to work for one’s liberation; the dead, too, are better suited to the earth than the living.”
Huge numbers of women are justifiably terrified by the trans activists; I know this because so many have got in touch with me to tell their stories. They’re afraid of doxxing, of losing their jobs or their livelihoods, and of violence.

But endlessly unpleasant as its constant targeting of me has been, I refuse to bow down to a movement that I believe is doing demonstrable harm in seeking to erode ‘woman’ as a political and biological class and offering cover to predators like few before it. I stand alongside the brave women and men, gay, straight and trans, who’re standing up for freedom of speech and thought, and for the rights and safety of some of the most vulnerable in our society: young gay kids, fragile teenagers, and women who’re reliant on and wish to retain their single sex spaces. Polls show those women are in the vast majority, and exclude only those privileged or lucky enough never to have come up against male violence or sexual assault, and who’ve never troubled to educate themselves on how prevalent it is.

The one thing that gives me hope is that the women who can protest and organise, are doing so, and they have some truly decent men and trans people alongside them. Political parties seeking to appease the loudest voices in this debate are ignoring women’s concerns at their peril. In the UK, women are reaching out to each other across party lines, concerned about the erosion of their hard-won rights and widespread intimidation. None of the gender critical women I’ve talked to hates trans people; on the contrary. Many of them became interested in this issue in the first place out of concern for trans youth, and they’re hugely sympathetic towards trans adults who simply want to live their lives, but who’re facing a backlash for a brand of activism they don’t endorse. The supreme irony is that the attempt to silence women with the word ‘TERF’ may have pushed more young women towards radical feminism than the movement’s seen in decades.
The last thing I want to say is this. I haven’t written this essay in the hope that anybody will get out a violin for me, not even a teeny-weeny one. I’m extraordinarily fortunate; I’m a survivor, certainly not a victim. I’ve only mentioned my past because, like every other human being on this planet, I have a complex backstory, which shapes my fears, my interests and my opinions. I never forget that inner complexity when I’m creating a fictional character and I certainly never forget it when it comes to trans people.

All I’m asking – all I want – is for similar empathy, similar understanding, to be extended to the many millions of women whose sole crime is wanting their concerns to be heard without receiving threats and abuse.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
56
Emotionalsupportviper · 20/03/2024 07:38

mivona · 18/03/2024 20:17

If prisons are unsafe, then maybe that needs to be addressed, rather than making blanket judgements over when trans men and women should be lodged. Because the issue is not their genitals, but the violence.

How are you going to police who uses the toilets or changing rooms then? All the transwomen I know simply want someplace safe to pee.

All the transwomen I know simply want someplace safe to pee

There's a coincidence. It's the same with all the women I know.

And we have been saying all along that if TW feel unsafe in men's toilets then they should be addressing the issue of male violence, not making women feel unsafe in women's toilets,

Women are neither a human shield for men, nor something to be preyed upon, either figuratively or literally.

I have been nude in saunas, nude on beaches. I have no problem with nude men, or being nude in front of them. Why are you?

That is your choice @mivona . We respect your choice to cartwheel naked across a pitch in front of a football crowd if you so desire.

Please respect our choice not to be undressed or vulnerable in any way in front of men.

Emotionalsupportviper · 20/03/2024 08:01

Whatsnewpussyhat · 19/03/2024 16:39

Some people’s gender identity is more fluid as is some people’s sexuality. But for most it’s fixed

Gender identity ideology is the religion of a minority.

Baffling that 99.9% of the population are supposed to capitulate to this nonsense because the tiny minority cannot cope with their own sexed reality.

Then making laws to force people to go along with the absurdity that a man is a woman if he says so and pretend these men are somehow oppressed if they can't have access to spaces where women and girls are in s state of undress.

The money that's been thrown into pushing this multi billion dollar a year gravy train that deliberately seeks to demolish women's rights and uses vulnerable children to hide male motives, could've been put into teen mental health support, helping those in poverty, helping trauma victims etc etc

The funding for such a supposedly small number of people is ridiculously disproportionate.

There is no inner gender essence.
It's personality and self expression.
It's just thoughts and feelings based on life experiences and stereotypes.

Men who claim to have a 'woman' gender identity are projecting a very male, often extremely sexist or sexual, perspective of what they think a woman is or how they think a woman behaves.

What does a grown man who is sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a woman have in common with a traumatised teenage girl who is hiding behind an 'identity' as a maladaptive coping mechanism to said trauma?

The money that's been thrown into pushing this multi billion dollar a year gravy train that deliberately seeks to demolish women's rights and uses vulnerable children to hide male motives, could've been put into teen mental health support, helping those in poverty, helping trauma victims etc etc

This.

Money wasted, children mutilated, families destroyed - to validate some* men.

It's an obscene waste of resources.

*Adjectives removed to avoidbeing banned

NonPlayerCharacter · 20/03/2024 08:13

SnakesAndArrows · 20/03/2024 07:18

And we can keep showing up mivona’s argument as based on a fantasy future that disregards present facts.

It’s a discussion forum.

A fantasy future where everyone gets happily naked together, with emphasis on girls young enough to have living grandparents. Make of that what you will.

Jellycats4life · 20/03/2024 08:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SoreAndTired1 · 20/03/2024 08:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NonPlayerCharacter · 20/03/2024 08:41

Combined with the berating of women who don't want to get naked with strange men and the disparaging remark to ArabellaScott about women's safeguarding (attempting to imply that it is anti feminist and very right wing by comparing it to Phyllis Schlafly).... And, of course, constantly refusing to answer even one simple, straightforward question that would lay it all out without any deflection or obfuscation...

Before you delete this, MNHQ, I'm not accusing this person of being a troll. I think they sincerely believe what they're saying. That's what's so alarming.

NonPlayerCharacter · 20/03/2024 08:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

borntobequiet · 20/03/2024 08:47

I can’t think of many grandmothers who would be so laissez-faire about the privacy and safety of their own granddaughters.

A great part of my concern is to do with the safety and well-being of my granddaughters, as well as my concern that they not be exposed to and indoctrinated with the lies the gender cult wishes to impose on the rest of us.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 20/03/2024 08:48

Because she doesn't have to. Stop haranguing and scolding her.

I'm sure MNHQ will delete any posts that are deemed unacceptable behaviour. You don't need to be the self appointed thread police.

If you're going to post views that have most people thinking what the fuck, be prepared for the push back. And at least try and defend your position.

beachcitygirl · 20/03/2024 09:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Bunnyasmyname · 20/03/2024 09:13

Of course she was right.
i despair of women happily throwing their rights and the safeguarding of children under the bus in a horrendously misguided attempt of being kind and inclusive when really they are just bowing to the whims of men, yet again.

SoreAndTired1 · 20/03/2024 09:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Oh, all of a sudden, another 'grandmother' pops up. How interesting...

When RAPE SURVIVORS like me don't want to be traumatised by seeing a strange man's penis and testicles in female-only spaces, that is not 'bigotry'. Your own bigotry and ignorance is really really sad.

Btw, you are wrong. While the vast majority of women support trans rights, they ALSO, by a vast, vast majority, as poll after poll after poll shows, @beachcitygirl , support the retention of single sex spaces for women and girls. So you are in the teeny tiny ever-decreasing/almost non-existent fringe minority.

Lastly, men in a dress are not a 'minority' group:

To think that J K Rowling was right in her predictions about what would happen to women and girls?
nothingcomestonothing · 20/03/2024 09:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LOL, at least read the thread and check which tropes have already been tried.

We've already had:

  • Obsessed with genitals/genital inspections
  • Not proper feminists if you don't prioritise men
  • Bigots/ignorant/right wing (NB the posters calling other posters ignorant aren't the ones with any receipts for what they post, just saying)
  • Most women don't want single sex spaces/I'm fine with mixed sex so everyone should be too
  • Middle class middles aged white men are a vulnerable minority
  • And 'I'm fine with my daughters/grand daughters having to undress in front of adult men.

All of those have been done. Have you got anything original?

EasternStandard · 20/03/2024 09:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

How pleasant this is. No consideration for women here either.

There is a hide function on mn btw, use it for this thread?

NonPlayerCharacter · 20/03/2024 09:37

Don't you love the words like "slither" to describe women who don't want to share changing facilities with male people? Like they're snakes? And "genitalia obsessed", from the very people who are trying to erode safeguards against sexual offences? You want a space for female people, with equal spaces for male people and unisex groups, and you're a sex obsessed serpent?

Is my moral tutor from last night going to come and demand that these people behave in a "nice" (actual word used) way?

borntobequiet · 20/03/2024 09:38

Something you learn as a grandmother is that any distress your grandchildren experience is doubly worrying, as you feel for them in their distress but also feel for their parents - your children and their spouses or partners - having to deal with it.
I felt some relief when one DGD was diagnosed with ASD as I felt the diagnosis would at least afford temporary protection from damaging interventions if she became fixated with gender issues (she did, but it seems to have been a short-term fad driven by peers 🤞).
Also, of course, as both are now old enough to go swimming without adult supervision, I’m keen that they can change and shower without male company, and hope that they can enjoy and flourish (in) their sports safely, without having to compete with boys. I really didn’t anticipate having to worry about this. Forty years ago I was under the illusion that things could only get better for women and girls. How wrong I was.

Bunnyasmyname · 20/03/2024 09:46

It will never stop amazing me how people are so willing to put women and children in danger because of some men feelz.

Any man who wants to be in the changing room or toilets with young girls is precisely the reason why they shouldn’t be there.

It really isn’t difficult to understand.

EasternStandard · 20/03/2024 09:49

NonPlayerCharacter · 20/03/2024 09:37

Don't you love the words like "slither" to describe women who don't want to share changing facilities with male people? Like they're snakes? And "genitalia obsessed", from the very people who are trying to erode safeguards against sexual offences? You want a space for female people, with equal spaces for male people and unisex groups, and you're a sex obsessed serpent?

Is my moral tutor from last night going to come and demand that these people behave in a "nice" (actual word used) way?

Yes nice bit of dehumanising language there regarding women

All very typed through gritted teeth and anger

It’s not far off some of the more abusive terms males lob at women, sometimes they even punch and use violence to get the point across

Women mustn’t say no or care about the safeguarding of children

WandaWomblesaurus · 20/03/2024 10:03

Amazing how these "Grandmothers" love the idea of demolishing the future safety of their grandchildren.

Mind you, some Grandmothers are complicit in FGM.

But some Grandmothers are sexually assaulted in hospitals and left to die in their beds by predatory men.

If I was a Grandmother I would be doing everything I could to fight for the safety of my family and my own future safety.

I would be fighting so that my grandchildren don't end up mentally ill and castrated by being seduced by propaganda on social media to think that humans can be born in the wrong bodies and pushing for puberty blockers that have been championed by a group in America who recommend Eunuch as an identity who have now been widely reported as saying they know that kids can't understand content.
If I was a Grandmother I would want to be really informed about this for the protection of my future kids.

Instead the last two "Grandmothers" are harping on about some nudist heaven or choosing not to think about the dismantling of safeguarding and what the ramifications of that are.

These are not lionesses protecting their families. I'm glad that my mother (the family Grandmother) has enough wit and sense in her even whilst disappearing into dementia, to have torn a strip off my 25 year old cousin when he tried to correct her language. She quite rightly called him an ignorant little boy.

OP posts:
PaperBauble · 20/03/2024 10:05

All the transwomen I know simply want someplace safe to pee

Always interested to see this dropped in, as though it’s some inconsequential act that doesn’t impact women. Quite apart from the safety issues already well evident, it shows a fundamental lack of understanding about why women use single sex toilet facilities.

  • Menstruation and the consequences of bleeding on clothes, hands, sanitary items
  • Dealing with the above in puberty when girls are learning and need help
  • Dealing with the above in menopause when women are flooding
  • Breastfeeding including dealing with leaks on clothing and pads, soreness, difficulty feeding etc
  • Pumping breast milk or dealing with symptoms of mastitis or infection during breast feeding months/years
  • Miscarriage and spotting during early pregnancy - extremely common and very distressing
  • Escaping being followed, harassed or supervised by males, including by male partners
  • Coping with morning sickness symptoms including nausea, vomiting, dizziness
  • Coping with post pregnancy bowel and bladder weakness, birth injuries and discomfort eg prolapse and fissure.

All of which means more toilet space, more time and more privacy is needed for women, which we already don’t have enough of.

If males need to pee then they can use the men’s perfectly safely and leave women alone.

TheKeatingFive · 20/03/2024 10:07

If males need to pee then they can use the men’s perfectly safely and leave women alone.

Or they can campaign for third spaces. Zero need to involve women - it's got nothing to do with women.

WandaWomblesaurus · 20/03/2024 10:07

WandaWomblesaurus · 20/03/2024 10:03

Amazing how these "Grandmothers" love the idea of demolishing the future safety of their grandchildren.

Mind you, some Grandmothers are complicit in FGM.

But some Grandmothers are sexually assaulted in hospitals and left to die in their beds by predatory men.

If I was a Grandmother I would be doing everything I could to fight for the safety of my family and my own future safety.

I would be fighting so that my grandchildren don't end up mentally ill and castrated by being seduced by propaganda on social media to think that humans can be born in the wrong bodies and pushing for puberty blockers that have been championed by a group in America who recommend Eunuch as an identity who have now been widely reported as saying they know that kids can't understand content.
If I was a Grandmother I would want to be really informed about this for the protection of my future kids.

Instead the last two "Grandmothers" are harping on about some nudist heaven or choosing not to think about the dismantling of safeguarding and what the ramifications of that are.

These are not lionesses protecting their families. I'm glad that my mother (the family Grandmother) has enough wit and sense in her even whilst disappearing into dementia, to have torn a strip off my 25 year old cousin when he tried to correct her language. She quite rightly called him an ignorant little boy.

*consent not content.
Although they obviously also don't understand the content of the documents they are signing their future health away to.

www.msn.com/en-au/health/other/witchcraft-files-show-wpath-members-pushing-puberty-blockers-onto-children/ar-BB1k1zpM

www.msn.com/en-au/health/other/medical-mistreatment-epidemic-wpath-members-must-be-held-accountable-for-trans-surgeries/ar-BB1k1ppV

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/09/disturbing-leaks-from-us-gender-group-wpath-ring-alarm-bells-in-nhs

OP posts:
RufustheFactualReindeer · 20/03/2024 10:08

NonPlayerCharacter · 20/03/2024 09:37

Don't you love the words like "slither" to describe women who don't want to share changing facilities with male people? Like they're snakes? And "genitalia obsessed", from the very people who are trying to erode safeguards against sexual offences? You want a space for female people, with equal spaces for male people and unisex groups, and you're a sex obsessed serpent?

Is my moral tutor from last night going to come and demand that these people behave in a "nice" (actual word used) way?

Doesn’t usually

but you never know, i remain optimistic

Ofcourseshecan · 20/03/2024 10:12

I’ve been puzzling over “Our deeply held sense of whether we are a man or a woman”.

Do adults usually feel this? It all reminds me of adolescence, when I was preoccupied with ‘finding myself’. Lots of introspection, seeking my path in life, trying to discover my true self etc. It all evaporated when I was out in the real world earning a living! Actually doing things rather than living in my imagination.

I’n aware that I’m human and female. But like other PPs here, it’s not about having a gender identity, or a species identity. Or identifying as having one nose and two feet etc.

The ‘deeply felt identity’ stuff sounds like being trapped in your teens.

Emotionalsupportviper · 20/03/2024 10:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread