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To think that J K Rowling was right in her predictions about what would happen to women and girls?

1000 replies

WandaWomblesaurus · 18/03/2024 09:19

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

10 JUNE 2020
J.K. Rowling Writes about Her Reasons for Speaking out on Sex and Gender Issues

Warning: The below content is not appropriate for children. Please check with an adult before you read this page. To go back to the children’s page, please click heree_.

This isn’t an easy piece to write, for reasons that will shortly become clear, but I know it’s time to explain myself on an issue surrounded by toxicity. I write this without any desire to add to that toxicity.

For people who don’t know: last December I tweeted my support for Maya Forstater, a tax specialist who’d lost her job for what were deemed ‘transphobic’ tweets. She took her case to an employment tribunal, asking the judge to rule on whether a philosophical belief that sex is determined by biology is protected in law. Judge Tayler ruled that it wasn’t.

My interest in trans issues pre-dated Maya’s case by almost two years, during which I followed the debate around the concept of gender identity closely. I’ve met trans people, and read sundry books, blogs and articles by trans people, gender specialists, intersex people, psychologists, safeguarding experts, social workers and doctors, and followed the discourse online and in traditional media. On one level, my interest in this issue has been professional, because I’m writing a crime series, set in the present day, and my fictional female detective is of an age to be interested in, and affected by, these issues herself, but on another, it’s intensely personal, as I’m about to explain.

All the time I’ve been researching and learning, accusations and threats from trans activists have been bubbling in my Twitter timeline. This was initially triggered by a ‘like’. When I started taking an interest in gender identity and transgender matters, I began screenshotting comments that interested me, as a way of reminding myself what I might want to research later. On one occasion, I absent-mindedly ‘liked’ instead of screenshotting. That single ‘like’ was deemed evidence of wrongthink, and a persistent low level of harassment began.

Months later, I compounded my accidental ‘like’ crime by following Magdalen Berns on Twitter. Magdalen was an immensely brave young feminist and lesbian who was dying of an aggressive brain tumour. I followed her because I wanted to contact her directly, which I succeeded in doing. However, as Magdalen was a great believer in the importance of biological sex, and didn’t believe lesbians should be called bigots for not dating trans women with penises, dots were joined in the heads of twitter trans activists, and the level of social media abuse increased.

I mention all this only to explain that I knew perfectly well what was going to happen when I supported Maya. I must have been on my fourth or fifth cancellation by then. I expected the threats of violence, to be told I was literally killing trans people with my hate, to be called cunt and bitch and, of course, for my books to be burned, although one particularly abusive man told me he’d composted them.

What I didn’t expect in the aftermath of my cancellation was the avalanche of emails and letters that came showering down upon me, the overwhelming majority of which were positive, grateful and supportive. They came from a cross-section of kind, empathetic and intelligent people, some of them working in fields dealing with gender dysphoria and trans people, who’re all deeply concerned about the way a socio-political concept is influencing politics, medical practice and safeguarding.

They’re worried about the dangers to young people, gay people and about the erosion of women’s and girl’s rights. Above all, they’re worried about a climate of fear that serves nobody – least of all trans youth – well.

I’d stepped back from Twitter for many months both before and after tweeting support for Maya, because I knew it was doing nothing good for my mental health. I only returned because I wanted to share a free children’s book during the pandemic. Immediately, activists who clearly believe themselves to be good, kind and progressive people swarmed back into my timeline, assuming a right to police my speech, accuse me of hatred, call me misogynistic slurs and, above all – as every woman involved in this debate will know – TERF.

If you didn’t already know – and why should you? – ‘TERF’ is an acronym coined by trans activists, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In practice, a huge and diverse cross-section of women are currently being called TERFs and the vast majority have never been radical feminists. Examples of so-called TERFs range from the mother of a gay child who was afraid their child wanted to transition to escape homophobic bullying, to a hitherto totally unfeminist older lady who’s vowed never to visit Marks & Spencer again because they’re allowing any man who says they identify as a woman into the women’s changing rooms. Ironically, radical feminists aren’t even trans-exclusionary – they include trans men in their feminism, because they were born women.

But accusations of TERFery have been sufficient to intimidate many people, institutions and organisations I once admired, who’re cowering before the tactics of the playground. ‘They’ll call us transphobic!’ ‘They’ll say I hate trans people!’ What next, they’ll say you’ve got fleas? Speaking as a biological woman, a lot of people in positions of power really need to grow a pair (which is doubtless literally possible, according to the kind of people who argue that clownfish prove humans aren’t a dimorphic species).

So why am I doing this? Why speak up? Why not quietly do my research and keep my head down?

Well, I’ve got five reasons for being worried about the new trans activism, and deciding I need to speak up.

Firstly, I have a charitable trust that focuses on alleviating social deprivation in Scotland, with a particular emphasis on women and children. Among other things, my trust supports projects for female prisoners and for survivors of domestic and sexual abuse. I also fund medical research into MS, a disease that behaves very differently in men and women. It’s been clear to me for a while that the new trans activism is having (or is likely to have, if all its demands are met) a significant impact on many of the causes I support, because it’s pushing to erode the legal definition of sex and replace it with gender.

The second reason is that I’m an ex-teacher and the founder of a children’s charity, which gives me an interest in both education and safeguarding. Like many others, I have deep concerns about the effect the trans rights movement is having on both.

The third is that, as a much-banned author, I’m interested in freedom of speech and have publicly defended it, even unto Donald Trump.

The fourth is where things start to get truly personal. I’m concerned about the huge explosion in young women wishing to transition and also about the increasing numbers who seem to be detransitioning (returning to their original sex), because they regret taking steps that have, in some cases, altered their bodies irrevocably, and taken away their fertility. Some say they decided to transition after realising they were same-sex attracted, and that transitioning was partly driven by homophobia, either in society or in their families.

Most people probably aren’t aware – I certainly wasn’t, until I started researching this issue properly – that ten years ago, the majority of people wanting to transition to the opposite sex were male. That ratio has now reversed. The UK has experienced a 4400% increase in girls being referred for transitioning treatment. Autistic girls are hugely overrepresented in their numbers.
The same phenomenon has been seen in the US. In 2018, American physician and researcher Lisa Littman set out to explore it. In an interview, she said:
‘Parents online were describing a very unusual pattern of transgender-identification where multiple friends and even entire friend groups became transgender-identified at the same time. I would have been remiss had I not considered social contagion and peer influences as potential factors.’
Littman mentioned Tumblr, Reddit, Instagram and YouTube as contributing factors to Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, where she believes that in the realm of transgender identification ‘youth have created particularly insular echo chambers.’
Her paper caused a furore. She was accused of bias and of spreading misinformation about transgender people, subjected to a tsunami of abuse and a concerted campaign to discredit both her and her work. The journal took the paper offline and re-reviewed it before republishing it. However, her career took a similar hit to that suffered by Maya Forstater. Lisa Littman had dared challenge one of the central tenets of trans activism, which is that a person’s gender identity is innate, like sexual orientation. Nobody, the activists insisted, could ever be persuaded into being trans.

The argument of many current trans activists is that if you don’t let a gender dysphoric teenager transition, they will kill themselves. In an article explaining why he resigned from the Tavistock (an NHS gender clinic in England) psychiatrist Marcus Evans stated that claims that children will kill themselves if not permitted to transition do not ‘align substantially with any robust data or studies in this area. Nor do they align with the cases I have encountered over decades as a psychotherapist.’

The writings of young trans men reveal a group of notably sensitive and clever people. The more of their accounts of gender dysphoria I’ve read, with their insightful descriptions of anxiety, dissociation, eating disorders, self-harm and self-hatred, the more I’ve wondered whether, if I’d been born 30 years later, I too might have tried to transition. The allure of escaping womanhood would have been huge. I struggled with severe OCD as a teenager. If I’d found community and sympathy online that I couldn’t find in my immediate environment, I believe I could have been persuaded to turn myself into the son my father had openly said he’d have preferred.

When I read about the theory of gender identity, I remember how mentally sexless I felt in youth. I remember Colette’s description of herself as a ‘mental hermaphrodite’ and Simone de Beauvoir’s words: ‘It is perfectly natural for the future woman to feel indignant at the limitations posed upon her by her sex. The real question is not why she should reject them: the problem is rather to understand why she accepts them.’
As I didn’t have a realistic possibility of becoming a man back in the 1980s, it had to be books and music that got me through both my mental health issues and the sexualised scrutiny and judgement that sets so many girls to war against their bodies in their teens. Fortunately for me, I found my own sense of otherness, and my ambivalence about being a woman, reflected in the work of female writers and musicians who reassured me that, in spite of everything a sexist world tries to throw at the female-bodied, it’s fine not to feel pink, frilly and compliant inside your own head; it’s OK to feel confused, dark, both sexual and non-sexual, unsure of what or who you are.

I want to be very clear here: I know transition will be a solution for some gender dysphoric people, although I’m also aware through extensive research that studies have consistently shown that between 60-90% of gender dysphoric teens will grow out of their dysphoria. Again and again I’ve been told to ‘just meet some trans people.’ I have: in addition to a few younger people, who were all adorable, I happen to know a self-described transsexual woman who’s older than I am and wonderful. Although she’s open about her past as a gay man, I’ve always found it hard to think of her as anything other than a woman, and I believe (and certainly hope) she’s completely happy to have transitioned. Being older, though, she went through a long and rigorous process of evaluation, psychotherapy and staged transformation. The current explosion of trans activism is urging a removal of almost all the robust systems through which candidates for sex reassignment were once required to pass. A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law. Many people aren’t aware of this.
We’re living through the most misogynistic period I’ve experienced. Back in the 80s, I imagined that my future daughters, should I have any, would have it far better than I ever did, but between the backlash against feminism and a porn-saturated online culture, I believe things have got significantly worse for girls. Never have I seen women denigrated and dehumanised to the extent they are now. From the leader of the free world’s long history of sexual assault accusations and his proud boast of ‘grabbing them by the pussy’, to the incel (‘involuntarily celibate’) movement that rages against women who won’t give them sex, to the trans activists who declare that TERFs need punching and re-educating, men across the political spectrum seem to agree: women are asking for trouble. Everywhere, women are being told to shut up and sit down, or else.

I’ve read all the arguments about femaleness not residing in the sexed body, and the assertions that biological women don’t have common experiences, and I find them, too, deeply misogynistic and regressive. It’s also clear that one of the objectives of denying the importance of sex is to erode what some seem to see as the cruelly segregationist idea of women having their own biological realities or – just as threatening – unifying realities that make them a cohesive political class. The hundreds of emails I’ve received in the last few days prove this erosion concerns many others just as much. It isn’t enough for women to be trans allies. Women must accept and admit that there is no material difference between trans women and themselves.

But, as many women have said before me, ‘woman’ is not a costume. ‘Woman’ is not an idea in a man’s head. ‘Woman’ is not a pink brain, a liking for Jimmy Choos or any of the other sexist ideas now somehow touted as progressive. Moreover, the ‘inclusive’ language that calls female people ‘menstruators’ and ‘people with vulvas’ strikes many women as dehumanising and demeaning. I understand why trans activists consider this language to be appropriate and kind, but for those of us who’ve had degrading slurs spat at us by violent men, it’s not neutral, it’s hostile and alienating.

Which brings me to the fifth reason I’m deeply concerned about the consequences of the current trans activism.

I’ve been in the public eye now for over twenty years and have never talked publicly about being a domestic abuse and sexual assault survivor. This isn’t because I’m ashamed those things happened to me, but because they’re traumatic to revisit and remember. I also feel protective of my daughter from my first marriage. I didn’t want to claim sole ownership of a story that belongs to her, too. However, a short while ago, I asked her how she’d feel if I were publicly honest about that part of my life, and she encouraged me to go ahead.

I’m mentioning these things now not in an attempt to garner sympathy, but out of solidarity with the huge numbers of women who have histories like mine, who’ve been slurred as bigots for having concerns around single-sex spaces.
I managed to escape my first violent marriage with some difficulty, but I’m now married to a truly good and principled man, safe and secure in ways I never in a million years expected to be. However, the scars left by violence and sexual assault don’t disappear, no matter how loved you are, and no matter how much money you’ve made. My perennial jumpiness is a family joke – and even I know it’s funny – but I pray my daughters never have the same reasons I do for hating sudden loud noises, or finding people behind me when I haven’t heard them approaching.

If you could come inside my head and understand what I feel when I read about a trans woman dying at the hands of a violent man, you’d find solidarity and kinship. I have a visceral sense of the terror in which those trans women will have spent their last seconds on earth, because I too have known moments of blind fear when I realised that the only thing keeping me alive was the shaky self-restraint of my attacker.

I believe the majority of trans-identified people not only pose zero threat to others, but are vulnerable for all the reasons I’ve outlined. Trans people need and deserve protection. Like women, they’re most likely to be killed by sexual partners. Trans women who work in the sex industry, particularly trans women of colour, are at particular risk. Like every other domestic abuse and sexual assault survivor I know, I feel nothing but empathy and solidarity with trans women who’ve been abused by men.

So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe. When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside. That is the simple truth.

On Saturday morning, I read that the Scottish government is proceeding with its controversial gender recognition plans, which will in effect mean that all a man needs to ‘become a woman’ is to say he’s one. To use a very contemporary word, I was ‘triggered’. Ground down by the relentless attacks from trans activists on social media, when I was only there to give children feedback about pictures they’d drawn for my book under lockdown, I spent much of Saturday in a very dark place inside my head, as memories of a serious sexual assault I suffered in my twenties recurred on a loop. That assault happened at a time and in a space where I was vulnerable, and a man capitalised on an opportunity. I couldn’t shut out those memories and I was finding it hard to contain my anger and disappointment about the way I believe my government is playing fast and loose with womens and girls’ safety.

Late on Saturday evening, scrolling through children’s pictures before I went to bed, I forgot the first rule of Twitter – never, ever expect a nuanced conversation – and reacted to what I felt was degrading language about women. I spoke up about the importance of sex and have been paying the price ever since. I was transphobic, I was a cunt, a bitch, a TERF, I deserved cancelling, punching and death. You are Voldemort said one person, clearly feeling this was the only language I’d understand.

It would be so much easier to tweet the approved hashtags – because of course trans rights are human rights and of course trans lives matter – scoop up the woke cookies and bask in a virtue-signalling afterglow. There’s joy, relief and safety in conformity. As Simone de Beauvoir also wrote, “… without a doubt it is more comfortable to endure blind bondage than to work for one’s liberation; the dead, too, are better suited to the earth than the living.”
Huge numbers of women are justifiably terrified by the trans activists; I know this because so many have got in touch with me to tell their stories. They’re afraid of doxxing, of losing their jobs or their livelihoods, and of violence.

But endlessly unpleasant as its constant targeting of me has been, I refuse to bow down to a movement that I believe is doing demonstrable harm in seeking to erode ‘woman’ as a political and biological class and offering cover to predators like few before it. I stand alongside the brave women and men, gay, straight and trans, who’re standing up for freedom of speech and thought, and for the rights and safety of some of the most vulnerable in our society: young gay kids, fragile teenagers, and women who’re reliant on and wish to retain their single sex spaces. Polls show those women are in the vast majority, and exclude only those privileged or lucky enough never to have come up against male violence or sexual assault, and who’ve never troubled to educate themselves on how prevalent it is.

The one thing that gives me hope is that the women who can protest and organise, are doing so, and they have some truly decent men and trans people alongside them. Political parties seeking to appease the loudest voices in this debate are ignoring women’s concerns at their peril. In the UK, women are reaching out to each other across party lines, concerned about the erosion of their hard-won rights and widespread intimidation. None of the gender critical women I’ve talked to hates trans people; on the contrary. Many of them became interested in this issue in the first place out of concern for trans youth, and they’re hugely sympathetic towards trans adults who simply want to live their lives, but who’re facing a backlash for a brand of activism they don’t endorse. The supreme irony is that the attempt to silence women with the word ‘TERF’ may have pushed more young women towards radical feminism than the movement’s seen in decades.
The last thing I want to say is this. I haven’t written this essay in the hope that anybody will get out a violin for me, not even a teeny-weeny one. I’m extraordinarily fortunate; I’m a survivor, certainly not a victim. I’ve only mentioned my past because, like every other human being on this planet, I have a complex backstory, which shapes my fears, my interests and my opinions. I never forget that inner complexity when I’m creating a fictional character and I certainly never forget it when it comes to trans people.

All I’m asking – all I want – is for similar empathy, similar understanding, to be extended to the many millions of women whose sole crime is wanting their concerns to be heard without receiving threats and abuse.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
56
Chersfrozenface · 19/03/2024 12:12

I worry sometimes that it's a very young person saying stuff like this, and that they're being "educated" to reject the information provided by their senses so that their conscious mind really does think they can't tell.

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

George Orwell, 1984

Ofcourseshecan · 19/03/2024 12:18

Cauliflowery · 19/03/2024 12:03

Obviously the phrase "genital inspection" is a bullshit trans ideologue trope but I'm fascinated by the people who trot it out. Especially in 2024! It's as old and stale as "born in the wrong body" which even many TRAs no longer bother with.

I'd love to know more about people who genuinely can't tell the sex of other humans. I wonder if it is a bit like face blindness, which is definitely real.

I worry sometimes that it's a very young person saying stuff like this, and that they're being "educated" to reject the information provided by their senses so that their conscious mind really does think they can't tell.

Yup. The world wasn’t dangerous enough for women. So now we are training them to ignore their survival instincts and their ability to draw conclusions from what they observe.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 19/03/2024 12:19

mivona · 18/03/2024 20:17

If prisons are unsafe, then maybe that needs to be addressed, rather than making blanket judgements over when trans men and women should be lodged. Because the issue is not their genitals, but the violence.

How are you going to police who uses the toilets or changing rooms then? All the transwomen I know simply want someplace safe to pee.

If you are referring to a place safe from physical violence, men’s toilets are not a place where I have ever, in many decades of using them, come across violence. The worst I have come across is unpleasant words, from men to men, and that has been very rare (most men’s toilets are very quiet indeed!). Is there evidence that transwomen are unsafe in men’s toilets?

EasternStandard · 19/03/2024 12:20

Chersfrozenface · 19/03/2024 12:12

I worry sometimes that it's a very young person saying stuff like this, and that they're being "educated" to reject the information provided by their senses so that their conscious mind really does think they can't tell.

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

George Orwell, 1984

The university poster telling young women to ignore what they see is chilling

And the rest

CantDealwithChristmas · 19/03/2024 12:29

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 19/03/2024 11:58

It annoyed me intensely when Screw, that Channel 4 drama set in a male prison, had a storyline centring on a prisoner who turned out to be a transman and who was desperate not to be outed and transferred to a female prison. Everybody was super supportive, used male pronouns without a blink, and nobody talked about safeguarding, IIRC. Just not realistic.

Not seen it but that storyline is...NOT how men in prison would behave with a single vulnerable female in their midst. That is a highly irresponsible storyline, no different in eyes than a storyline involving a Black woman enjoying a friendship with a member of the Aryan Brotherhood or a victim of sexual abuse making peace with and marrying his abuser.

CantDealwithChristmas · 19/03/2024 12:31

Cauliflowery · 19/03/2024 12:03

Obviously the phrase "genital inspection" is a bullshit trans ideologue trope but I'm fascinated by the people who trot it out. Especially in 2024! It's as old and stale as "born in the wrong body" which even many TRAs no longer bother with.

I'd love to know more about people who genuinely can't tell the sex of other humans. I wonder if it is a bit like face blindness, which is definitely real.

I worry sometimes that it's a very young person saying stuff like this, and that they're being "educated" to reject the information provided by their senses so that their conscious mind really does think they can't tell.

Oh come on, as discredited cliches go, it's nowhere near as good as that hoary old chestnut "YOUR BATHROOM AT HOME IS MIXED SEX"

Emotionalsupportviper · 19/03/2024 12:38

stayathomer · 18/03/2024 11:17

Yabu for posting this in aibu. Why not in feminism?

Traffic

Emotionalsupportviper · 19/03/2024 12:39

WaitingForMojo · 18/03/2024 11:23

Well, lots of us don’t want to read it and think it’s crap. And want to be able to read other boards without encountering it. HTH.

Don't read it then.

Just scroll on by. It is't hard to do.

Baldieheid · 19/03/2024 12:39

It's quite chilling how flippant and complacent some women are, not just of their own safety and dignity but of that of their granddaughters, and their friends, and their mothers, and their neighbours.

The empathy bypass has me baffled.

Cauliflowery · 19/03/2024 12:48

NonPlayerCharacter · 19/03/2024 12:10

Obviously the phrase "genital inspection" is a bullshit trans ideologue trope but I'm fascinated by the people who trot it out.

They're trying both to deny and utilise social convention and expectation at the same time. Of course we never checked people's genitals (or maybe people like Mivona, who think women are wrong for not wanting to undress with men and can't see any complications surrounding nudity amongst strangers, actually did? I don't think anything would surprise me at this point.). We relied on social norms and expectation, the exact same thing they are both denying ever worked to keep men out, and are also utilising when they try to make it socially unacceptable to ask a clearly male person what they're doing in there, or use any language that suggests you've noticed this person isn't female.

When I was in Cairo, the train system had a women only carriage. It wasn't policed as far as I recall but the social expectation was there and while we did get hassled a bit here and there, no man ever tried to set foot on the women's carriage, even when the train was very full.

Thank you, you've summarised something I have been trying to put into words for a long time.

"They're trying both to deny and utilise social convention and expectation at the same time"

Chersfrozenface · 19/03/2024 12:52

Baldieheid · 19/03/2024 12:39

It's quite chilling how flippant and complacent some women are, not just of their own safety and dignity but of that of their granddaughters, and their friends, and their mothers, and their neighbours.

The empathy bypass has me baffled.

That's presuming that all those saying they are, for instance, a grandmother, are actually women.

Do we not remember Glenique Frank, the transwoman in the women's section of the London Marathon, gushing about becoming a grandmother?

Or Ruth Rose, formerly James, "grandmother of three"?

CantDealwithChristmas · 19/03/2024 12:52

Baldieheid · 19/03/2024 12:39

It's quite chilling how flippant and complacent some women are, not just of their own safety and dignity but of that of their granddaughters, and their friends, and their mothers, and their neighbours.

The empathy bypass has me baffled.

See my theory is, it's easy for women to be laissez faire about their rights and safety when they've not had to endure the risk or actuality of male violence, threat and oppression.

This is why the most vocal female transactivists tend to be young, white, wealthy and privileged.

Black women, working class women, mothers, any woman beyond middle age, lesbians - they've no time for it. Because they all, to a greater or lesser extent, have often sadly experienced first hand or witnessed what male supremacy can lead to, either by dint of being a minority/vulnerable group, or simply because they've lived longer and had more opportunity to see it..

Baldieheid · 19/03/2024 12:53

Odd isn't it, that cyber flashing is now a crime and the first person is going to jail for it. Yet right here, on a female centred site, women are arguing for the right of flesh and blood males to share naked spaces with flesh and blood females.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-68543605

I'm bamboozled. Totally. Is the court case an overreaction? After all, he "just" sent them pictures.

Yet a strapping 20 something year old Lia Thomas stripped off naked in front of the girls in the swimming pool changing room and they were supposed to be okay with seeing Lia's ladycock? That not being okay was totally not okay.

Breaking News

Cyber-flasher first to be jailed for new offence after WhatsApp pic

Nicholas Hawkes sent unsolicited photos of his genitals to a 15-year-old girl and a woman.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-68543605

Whatsnewpussyhat · 19/03/2024 12:54

The empathy bypass has me baffled

They appear to have empathy, just not for women and girls.
It's almost like they can clearly distinguish between the two sexes after all. 🤔

NonPlayerCharacter · 19/03/2024 12:55

Cauliflowery · 19/03/2024 12:48

Thank you, you've summarised something I have been trying to put into words for a long time.

"They're trying both to deny and utilise social convention and expectation at the same time"

Thank you.

Yes, that's it. On the one hand, noting that we never used actual force to keep men out - because we used social expectation, which empowered women to confront a man who went in there. As a young woman, I escaped several men who followed or latched on to me in public by finding a women's toilet. Yes, they could have forced their way in, but social expectation was strong enough that they never did. They felt perfectly happy staying at my side or behind me despite me trying to shake them off, but they were not happy to enter a space where they knew men were not allowed and I and all other women present had social and societal clout if they tried it.

The TRAs claim this isn't a thing and social expectation never worked, even though it quite demonstrably did. But they also try to use this same technique to erase women's boundaries and remove their power to confront men who try to enter the space. Social expectation.

It's not their most egregious act of dishonesty, hypocrisy and obtuseness, but it's a significant one.

Baldieheid · 19/03/2024 12:55

Whatsnewpussyhat · 19/03/2024 12:54

The empathy bypass has me baffled

They appear to have empathy, just not for women and girls.
It's almost like they can clearly distinguish between the two sexes after all. 🤔

Point taken.

EasternStandard · 19/03/2024 12:56

Whatsnewpussyhat · 19/03/2024 12:54

The empathy bypass has me baffled

They appear to have empathy, just not for women and girls.
It's almost like they can clearly distinguish between the two sexes after all. 🤔

I think it’s just male prioritisation on a mega scale

Women and girls don’t even feature

It’s pretty messed up

TheKeatingFive · 19/03/2024 12:57

CantDealwithChristmas · 19/03/2024 12:52

See my theory is, it's easy for women to be laissez faire about their rights and safety when they've not had to endure the risk or actuality of male violence, threat and oppression.

This is why the most vocal female transactivists tend to be young, white, wealthy and privileged.

Black women, working class women, mothers, any woman beyond middle age, lesbians - they've no time for it. Because they all, to a greater or lesser extent, have often sadly experienced first hand or witnessed what male supremacy can lead to, either by dint of being a minority/vulnerable group, or simply because they've lived longer and had more opportunity to see it..

Exactly this. There are many women out there who do not have a solitary clue.

Doesn't stop their virtue signalling while they throw genuinely vulnerable women under the bus. Despicable reality.

Ofcourseshecan · 19/03/2024 12:57

CantDealwithChristmas · 19/03/2024 12:52

See my theory is, it's easy for women to be laissez faire about their rights and safety when they've not had to endure the risk or actuality of male violence, threat and oppression.

This is why the most vocal female transactivists tend to be young, white, wealthy and privileged.

Black women, working class women, mothers, any woman beyond middle age, lesbians - they've no time for it. Because they all, to a greater or lesser extent, have often sadly experienced first hand or witnessed what male supremacy can lead to, either by dint of being a minority/vulnerable group, or simply because they've lived longer and had more opportunity to see it..

This, 100%. Sadly, those young women will find out the hard way.

jeaux90 · 19/03/2024 12:59

@CantDealwithChristmas you make an excellent point about women who support the ideology have nothing to lose.

Meanwhile us hardcore feminists come from a place of the most vulnerable women and girls in society.
They have everything to lose when they are in rape crisis, DV shelters and prisons if we let males in.

NonPlayerCharacter · 19/03/2024 12:59

Yes, they do seem to know who the females are when it comes to targeting boundaries and making nonsense accusations.

I mean hell, why do so many of them come here? What is it about MN's userbase that makes them think we in particular need their bullshit correction?

BlondiesHaveMoreFun · 19/03/2024 13:21

To anyone not agreeing with JKR, I would ask you this : would you be genuinely happy, for your young daughter to share a communal changing room, with a man in a dress? Would you allow your daughter to go into the restaurant toilets without you, knowing that Steve is in there, dressed in a skirt and blouse? If you pretend to see no problem in this, then I would suggest that you are risking your daughter's safety, purely to appear to others as woke. Make up your own minds and stop being brainwashed.

HeartofSaturdayNight · 19/03/2024 13:26

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/03/2024 10:10

Possibly fully accepting and coming to terms with the reality that they can't actually change sex and people don't see them as the opposite sex might be helpful to them. And everyone else.

Totally agree. We're not meat lego. You can't opt out of reality.

AHighOf9Degrees · 19/03/2024 13:51

On what basis are you asserting that its more complex/difficult? What are the differences? Body dysphoria/dysmorphia is the commonality.

Because gender identity is a core aspect of the personality structure. Once developed it seems very resistant to change.

I think there’s a subtle difference with body dysmorphia in general, which may focus on isolated body aspects. There’s more of a theoretical basis for the links between gender identity/ dysphoria and genetics, sex hormones, sex characteristics, brain sex (or the influence of sex hormones on neural development if you don’t like that phrase), sexuality and identity. Some hard wired elements perhaps. Than say, concern about nose size or imagined ugliness.

Also: 'may have genetic/biological elements' - what are you referencing here? Are you suggesting 'gender identity' is something we can test for?

That it likely has a biospsychosocial cause. In terms of what influences its development.
No not something you can test for as such, more clinical assessment when dysphoria presents.

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 19/03/2024 13:57

What I would like to ask those who think men/males should be allowed to change alongside me/my daughters/their granddaughters what if one of us does not consent?

I do not consent to being naked in the presence of an unknown male/being in the presence of a naked unknown male, my daughters do not consent. Consent is not transferable - you can not consent on behalf of others.

Single sex spaces are safer for women & girls - we do not consent to being less safe.

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