Autism in babies…

[PillowTrout]

My DC is diagnosed autistic and ADHD. Since then, I’ve become very interested in researching neurodiversity and have made friends with many parents of SEN children.

One thing I find interesting is symptoms in infancy. Most health professionals agree that you cannot reliably recognise or diagnose ASD or ADHD until around age 2. I have always maintained that I didn’t notice any symptoms until my DC started primary school, however, since talking to many parents I have found that most of our children exhibited one of the following extremes as babies:

• Extreme passivity as infants. Being too ‘good’. Happy to be left alone for long periods, not crying much, often sleeping through the night from an early age. Appearing very content, but with hindsight, a symptom of not being particularly bothered about interaction. Not particularly bothered about being left with new people, just generally appears very laid back.

OR

• Extremely unsettled as infants. Crying excessively, very clingy, not sleeping well or at all, sensory issues clear since birth. Often not feeding well. Just being generally very hard work. Often described as being very difficult to pacify.

I haven’t met many SEN parents that report average development or behaviours in infancy. It always seems to be extremes of behaviour, although at the time, it wouldn’t be recognised as too abnormal - just a particularly difficult or easy baby. It’s only with hindsight that these are noticed.

Another observation is milestones reached late, or too early. The too early group I find especially interesting as I feel this is under reported. Those in the early group put this down to their DC just being ahead, or strong, or intelligent. It’s certainly true for my DC - they were crawling by 5 months, walking by 11 months, and talking fluently by 18 months. I always assumed that because they didn’t meet milestones late, they were fine and couldn’t possibly be autistic… but this extreme of being so early on certain milestones I see in hindsight could also indicate ‘abnormal’ development.

Interested how many people identify with anything I have observed.

DD1 was just odd in her development. She wouldn't react to an aeroplane going overhead, but would startle at a very small noise. She would notice a tiny piece of glitter in the carpet and try to get it out. She would spend time trying to take the buckle out of her high chair. She would take a pencil and try to unscrew her toy door to dismantle it rather than playing with it.

She was hugely sensory seeking. She couldn't walk until she was almost 2, but then she walked over a mile, refusing to be helped. She had no need to be with us - we could put her in a room and walk out and she'd be quite happy.

She couldn't sleep at night unless we followed a strict routine. She slept naked except for a nappy, with a fan blasting, even in winter. That changed when she had a 24 hour ECG and was petrified of the wires. From that moment on she wore pyjamas to bed.

She was flagged as having SEN at 2.6 when she started preschool. Diagnosed with a brain malformation at 3.4, Went to special school. She didn't get her ASD dx until 15.

I have two dc with asd with my son I had no idea untill he was 3 he was the perfect baby so well behaved the only thing was he didn't talk till he was 3 and a half, my dd however was the complete opposite she was an unsettled little thing and at around 8 months she regressed and I lost the eye contact and little coos I knew in my heart she had asd she is 4 now and just started speaking in November she still can't understand everything or have a conversation but hearing her voice is amazing however she can read we didn't know she could read as she didn't speak her teacher's are astounded ! It's only on her terms but I can write a list of words for example paris forearm police and she can read it how she has learned to read is a mystery x when they say autism is a spectrum it's really true both my kids I look at and say yes they have asd but they really couldn't be more different just like any other siblings xx all the best to you all and your familys

Interesting thread. DS fell into the "too easy" camp. He was just so contented and self contained.
As a toddler he used to play by himself behind a baby gate, no problem at all. For a hour or so, every afternoon.
I had no idea how unusual that is! Probably just thought it was my brilliant parenting!
He's 11 now, diagnosed ASD and still "plays alone" by preference. Only now it's Minecraft in one tab and a history podcast running in another; instead of little plastic dinosaurs and rockets.

Nephew with ASD was extremely passive. Slept amazingly from day 1 and never cried. He was a late walker too.

My DS1 (now 19) was an extreme baby - never slept, cried all the time. Honestly it was the worst year of my life even though he was much wanted as I'd had to go through fertility treatment to have him. He met milestones early - crawled at 6 months and walked at 9 months. He is not diagnosed with ASD. He is very bright and does have a few red flags such as sensory issues with clothing, but I don't think there would be enough there for a diagnosis as he's never had social issues, meltdowns or anything and there's never been a suggestion by any teachers that we should investigate anything further.

Google infant reflexes not going dormant I think you will be interested in the links to neurodiverse traits

Dc1 with autism. Slept loads, very happy/ content to be left. Still sleeping 17 hours a day at 18 months. Milestones talking= early. Gross motor late. I put it down to him sleeping so much, not being able to learn and being so content, not being "bothered" to move towards toys. Not problematically behind until year 2.

Problem is, you’ve described two extremes… Most babies could fit one of the other example and they’re kind of open to interpretation…

My eldest was extremely ‘chill’, used to joke could have put him down and gone away for a week, he’d probably not notice. He continued to be zen until about 3, then very obvious social anxiety and adhd traits came about. However, I started suspecting ASD from about 18 months - he had no speech (never even babbled) but his problem solving skills were well beyond his age. He learned to speak by 2 but it was hyper correct and the HV noted he seemed quite echolalic.

My second child screamed his way into this world and simply didn’t stop. I knew there was something ‘off’ from the very early months, and it wasn’t just from severe sleep deprivation. From 6 months old, couldn’t take him out into a busy place unless he was asleep, had to plan all shopping and such around a very narrow nap time. By 2 it was very clear he had autism with delays/learning difficulties. Never made eye contact, never pointed, only words he had were repeating numbers over and over (stimming) from age 1. Obviously if a child has autism, they’re born with it, but it was with my second that I could absolutely see signs from very early on. Maybe I was simply more in tune with what ASD was by then though.

Ds wouldn't vocalise until he was out in his cot in a dark room then would chat to himself for ages. Like he couldn't take things in and express himself at the same time as too much sensory input.
Also when toddler he would talk non stop when on his trampoline.
Hated noisy toys and could not cope if you knocked on a door visiting and it didn't open

I don’t know, my NT daughter reached milestones early - waking down the street at 10 months, talking by 12 and I did describe her as extremely passive. My middle child was the opposite l, reached some milestones even earlier but was extremely hard work, very angry about everything. It was tough. The third was the same as the first. None have ASD. So I guess that’s where the non reliable diagnosis comes in.

I have 4. 2 ND, 2NT. The problem is the majority of babies display these early traits, which is why they say it's too early to tell. The difference is the growing out of them or developing differently to expected norms.

I knew from very very young that Ds1 wasn't 'normal'. But he also had viral meningitis at 7 weeks so no one knew how much of the issues were residual from that or because of ND. It was a long battle for us to get his needs recognised.

What I also strongly believe is not everyone needs a diagnosis but they do need understanding for their uniqueness.

Dd1 is likely on the very high functioning end of the ASC spectrum. She is very intelligent. As a child she was compliant to the point of passivity. It's only now she's entering adulthood that we are seeing more concerning behaviours. However, she has her own strategies which generally work for her and she's a teenager so we don't currently seek a diagnosis for her. We meet her need where necessary.

Dd2 on the other hand, is compliant to the point of violence if others do not comply. Struggles with friendships, has issues with sensory overwhelming clothes. Cannot wear certain things and prefers second hand clothes as new are 'too scratchy/tight even when sized up. She will only wear new clothes if they have certain characters on them. She cannot regulate her emotions even with help. She is also very intelligent. Dd2 needs her diagnosis so others see her potential.

So, in short yes signs may be seen when babies. But they're so intrinsically linked to baby behaviours in lots of ways, it's really hard to tell until they start becoming their own person.

I completely identify. DD on pathway to diagnosis now and was exactly as you described for a passive baby. Made me a bit emotional to read that actually, as all this only dawned on me recently. Now I see her as an almost teen it's easy to understand why that was. Was late with physical milestones.

My friend's son also slept well, but was extremely early with milestones, including reading by age 2.

My first DC was fussy and had tantrums, met all mile stones early. Walked 10 months. Shy. Talked clearly and well.

Second DC was not fussy, few tantrums, met milestones early. Walked 9 months. Extra social. Needed speech therapy.

Third DC was laid back, hardly any tantrums, met mile stones early. Walked 10 1/2 months. Very cheerful,sometimes shy and an excellent talker.

Fourth DC was also laid back, hardly any tantrums, met mile stones early. Walked 9 months and was not shy and speech was confident.

None of the kids slept through the night until 11 months.
All woke 2 hourly for months (until on solids), then 4 hourly.
All slept through the night well from one year of age, unless sick.

All were bf ate a variety of foods, were good children when going out in public, toilet trained aged about 1 1/2 during the day and three of them, toilet trained at night by 2 1/2; the other one by age 4. None are diagnosed as SEN.

We assumed that the differences in how our children behaved were highly influenced by their birth order and, namely, that the first child had inexperienced parents; the second and third children had tired parents and playmates from birth; and the fourth child had very experienced and relaxed parents, with boundaries firmly in place, and a stimulating house full of capable siblings.

I thought my baby hated me. He did none of the things you read about, all that gazing into your eyes as bonding while feeding stuff? Nope. He hated it. He fed constantly and used me as a dummy but he didn't want to be looked at or interacted with while doing it. He woke up every two hours from the day he was born until he was 15 months old when it got a bit more varied but he still clearly believed sleep was for the weak.
Even as a newborn he'd react horribly whenever I cuddled him. Screaming, arching his back. Like I said, I believed he hated me.

He was DX with autism at two and a half.

However his little brother did all that bonding stuff you read about. Loved interactions, loved cuddles, slept like a log.

It was a shock when he was DX with autism when he was three. He went through the classic regression you read about whereas my eldest looking back was clearly displaying strong signs of autism from birth.

Both of my DS (16 and 12) were extremely unsettled babies. Now diagnosed Autistic.
DS16 walked when he was 10 months but he's now the most uncoordinated young man. And very delayed and disordered speech. I didn't think about autism until he was 3. I found a video of him when he was 12 months old we took on holiday. He was stood at the edge of the sea, squeezing his hands (stimming) repeatedly and just staring at the water.

DS12 walked aged 19 months. He could jump before he could walk. Again, delayed speech.
Once he hit 6 months old he was the most happy delightful baby. Any sudden movements or noises though it was game over.

He didn't get his diagnosis till he was 7 - his eye contact was too good age 4 😂🙄

I think there is a lot of confirmation bias here.

I would like to reassure any worried parents that having a baby high on the scale of either being relaxed or high needs does not mean that there will be an issue.

No of course not, but there is also an idea that no one could possibly ‘know’ if a child is autistic before 2, like it just magically appears as a disability at that age. There are many signs before 2 in development milestones but unusually calm or unsettled baby are both factors in an overarching observation.

I have always said my ds was my reward for not strangling my dd. She is neurotypical but has always kept me on my toes. Ds was, in many ways, the prefect second child. He just existed as a happy lump for ages. 9m before he crawled. 17m to walk. He did have some sensory issues and food was always a problem but nobody really picked up on anything. I was pretty sure by 5 that there was something going on but he didn’t get a diagnosis until he was 12.

I work with babies and toddlers and I can see early traits sometimes. Occasionally I’ll pick something up in a baby and then by the time they’re 3, it’s gone. More often it’s around 15m I’ll be suspicious and then I’m pretty confident by the time they hit 3. in my role it’s not appropriate to actively raise concerns BUT if a parent approaches me (I’m very open in saying my ds is autistic) then I can signpost them on. I think I’ve got 5 kids (from 120) on the early diagnosis pathway currently.

Both my DC are diagnosed with ASD and ADHD.

Both were averagely tempered babies. Slept averagely. Both were walking (running) by 1. Both a bit speech-delayed and had speech therapy - DS1 more than DS2. I don't think I would have got therapy for him except there was the history with DS1.

DS1 had very little interest in other babies. We had baby friends who all bonded together and he played on the fringes, didn't care that we were off to see X, Y, Z, who all were best friends.

DS2 was quite sociable.

I do very distinctly remember a second birthday party where neither of them would join in the games or play with the others. I was in tears trying to get them to join in or at least stay in the room. I felt thoroughly incompetent. They were never any good with baby groups that involved group activities.

DS1 diagnosed at just 7 (referred for assessment in reception), started in a ASD unit at school in year 4. DS2 diagnosed at 10.

I always had queries about my son.

He was a really relaxed baby - far more relaxed than his older sibling had been. He was quite content being left to entertain himself when needed whereas my first son needed constant interaction.

He was also crawling by 7 months and confidently walking by 11 months.

He was very slow to speak, but now aged 6 he doesn’t stop and has an amazing vocabulary for his age.

He used to hate certain sensations, like wearing warm clothes off the radiator, or putting shoes on and he would get very distressed. He would also get very distressed if his hands even got slightly dirty.

He was breast fed until he was about three but it was never a binding or comforting experience, it was purely perfunctory for him. Whereas with my first son he was never off breast and always took great comfort from it.

We had so many problems with his eating, really sensitive to some tastes and textures and he’s now been referred to a dietician (6 years old) because of continued issues with his eating.

He is very clever and does his spellings, maths and english lessons with the school year above his own.

He has so many quirky behaviour traits and fixations that I still have niggling feelings in my mind that something is just ‘different’ about him, but his childminder and teacher have both told me that nothing about him would give them any reason to think he’s on the spectrum.

He’s just an interesting character I guess 🤷‍♀️

@SpeedyDrama but it's only really helpful if we have statistical data on

A) parents who think baby/child is ND and correct
B) parents think baby/child is ND and incorrect
C) parents think baby/child is NT and correct
D) parents think baby/child is NT and incorrect

To my knowledge, there is no such robust study- happy to be corrected.

Otherwise it's all anecdotal. And for every parent who is sure that their baby is ND and they do turn out to be ND, you can probably find a parent who was sure their baby is ND but turned out to be NT.

I will add that my perspective comes from having an extremely high needs baby who was speech delayed, absolutely convinced she was ND, because of threads like this.

She's now seven and completely NT and extremely bright.

People should always seek help for their baby when they feel appropriate (and I did- I had private Salt assessments for her) but things that are anecdotal and unproven need to be noted as such.

DD2 - diagnosed with dyspraxia (also affecting her speech) at age 4, very very unhappy baby but the sunniest natured toddler and child you'd ever meet. Diagnosed at age 8. Her ASD didn't really become as evident until her speech caught up with the rest of her development and you could find out the anxiety and rigid thought patterns going on between those ears. Her language processing and development was very much that of a gestalt language processor though when her speech intelligibility caught up with the content going on.

DD1 - on the ASD pathway (estimated wait still 2 1/2 years)... very very contented and chilled baby, very very early talker (has never shut up since) but very much the later end of normal for motor skill milestones. Her "differences" have been much more evident earlier on - things like lining items up and difficulty with imaginative play. Still a "flitter", hard to engage in tasks and very challenging behaviour from being a toddler onwards - she's a wonderful, funny, independent, intelligent pre-teen but by heck she's hard going in terms of constant constant constant testing of boundaries and going 0-kaboom in about a second.

And as I said, there is far more to it than simply how easy/difficult a baby you have. Missing key milestones when they come about is indicative of delays in some areas, regardless of perusing a diagnosis early.

My eldest is incredibly bright. If there wasn’t an evident familial pattern on top of speech delays in those early years, it’s likely we would have put aside chasing a diagnosis until he was older, as many families do when their child presents as ‘bright’ or academically able. It’s easy to put aside what autism actually is in the early years because of the huge focus on being able to get on with school work above all else. These children usually have far more difficulty in later life. So yes, it would be difficult to get a full statistical picture because many young people (especially of millennial and older generations) have missed being diagnosed as children simply for the fact that they’re bright enough to fall under the radar. Especially girls of course.

When my eldest was born I started going to a lovely baby group. Very nice supportive mums and all our babies were born within two or three months. One mum was stressed. Her baby screamed constantly. I remember coming along one day and another mum was pacing the floor with him and told me "look we sent "Mary" across the road to get coffee and to calm down". The poor woman was at her wits end. He crawled really really early it was actually strange to see him flying along as he was so tiny and he walked really early but after that all his milestones were delayed. He wasn't toilet trained for school and massive speech delay. But yes the signs were there from day one as she often recounted phoning her DH the night he was born bawling that the baby was very unsettled and she wanted him to come back to the hospital.
Anywho also have a DS with asd and I had the opposite experience with a lovely placid calm baby.