to ask why so many people think social housing is subsidised?

[butwhythen22]

Not a TAAT but inspired by a recent mention on here - one of very, very many.

I live in a council flat, FWIW.

So, so often I hear people say that it’s subsidised (the implication that someone else is paying part of the cost on my behalf).

This is not correct. The building is owned outright by a housing corporation. It’s a non-profit organisation that charges enough in rent and service costs to cover all its overheads, which are presumably many. This rent is, however, substantially lower than what the flat would fetch on the open market.

However, nobody is paying that “shortfall” on my behalf. It’s simply that the housing corporation’s mission is to provide affordable housing, so they are not charging more than they need to in order to keep everything running well.

(I don’t even receive UC or rent subsidies or anything like that, not that there would be anything wrong with it if I did. I support myself from paid employment.)

Why don’t people get this?

F knows. @CoatRack brought it up

Nope. She doesn’t

It's like NHS dentistry. Some can afford private but, through luck of the draw, are with a practice that still has NHS dentists, while others who really need it have lost theirs. Both systems need to be fixed, either everyone who doesn't own should get social housing or it should be for those most in need imo.

If it's your human right, then why should you have to pay?

Haven't mentioned benefits once. Try to keep up.

No I meant the benefit system not social housing. On social housing you are 100 per cent right

Sorry. Cross purposes.

You are suggesting that those that live in social housing are subsidised by benefits. You are also stating that shelter isn’t a basic human right.

No I'm not. I just said housing isn't a human right.

You made the rest up in your own head.

@DaBlackCatsAreDaBestCats I don’t know if I believe that shelter is a basic human right as such, but I certainly think everyone should be adequately housed. If only because I don’t like seeing people sleeping in shop doorways or in tents on vacant blocks in the middle of town.

Pretty much the same reason I donate to the food bank. I don’t think other people have the right to my money, but I don’t want to live in a society where people go hungry. I don’t care what the reason is.

So what is your problem with social housing

Rent used to be cheaper than a mortgage.

Not really.

So the house is bought outright and they cover the costs through rent. Often you pay a service charge too.

So if the house costs £500 a month then you pay that.

The same house next door which costs the same may have a £450 a month mortgage. They won't charge £500 which would cover rent and then money towards repairs and upkeep. It'll likely charge £8-900 a month to cover agents fees, wear and tear and profit.

That's not an exact science way to explain it but it's the general gist

My particular problem with it is the same problem I have with rent controls.
In a nutshell - artificial market distortion which makes prices higher for everyone else.

The short answer is that most people who feel that council housing is subsidised cannot tolerate the idea of someone else having good quality and affordable, secure housing
Most if the time it’s people with large mortgages who have to work hard to maintain their lifestyle and are resentful that others perhaps don’t need to

Thank you x

The council charges rent, which may or may not cover the cost of maintaining the properties they own. The costs will depend partly on how well the tenants look after the property and on how old the properties are and whether they were well built or require a lot of repairs.

If the cost is higher than the rent taken in, then the council will cover the costs: ergo those properties are being subsidized. That’s why I think social housing is subsidized, because sometimes it is.

It is a good model as it should people can have decent housing at reasonable prices. Unfortunately, Mrs Thatcher started the decimation of council housing and nobody has reversed that trend since.

How does it make prices higher? Surely if there was no social housing, prices would be higher because there would be more people competing for fewer resources?

Or are you saying that people in social housing should be paying market rent that’s in part paid by the government? And that would somehow bring prices down across the board?

Serious question btw, I just don’t get it.

I've worked with and know of quite a few people on 30k, 40k plus salaries who live in social housing, also know people on much lower salaries who can just about to afford to rent a room in a house share

Makes sense, I’m only familiar with my own building and corporation (house built in the ‘80s, ugly, solid, energy-efficient and presumably long since paid off).

Most were indeed, well built. It’s a great loss that there isn’t more available.

But why** it's a good question.

I moved into my HA flat in 1007. Rent has stayed fairly static but is now increasing due to inflation.

I received HB at first when ds was in nursery but I did a degree got promoted and now earn double. My hours are still limited though as I've remained a LP and he's disabled.

Market rents around here are double what I pay (£600 a month from April for a 2 bed flat)

I'd be entitled to UC towards it and I'd also be spending less in the economy and my taxes I pay would be coming straight back to me to a private landlord.

Often it's those stuck in private rentals they can't afford.

Through my work I know that social housing isn't always as it seems. We project managed a housing development which included social housing. That social housing is actually financed by a pension fund; the council is taking rental income and paying the pension fund - in a few decades the council will purchase the homes for £1.

I doubt it. The HA will benefit from economies of scale. They will pay a lot less for all the certification insurances, checks needed etc, and may not even need all the checks a private landlord will. They will also be operating and paying tax as a company rather than a private individual.

Considering the reluctance of the government to provide housing, people really should stop the witch-hunt and persecution of private landlords. It would serve many right if they all pulled their houses from the market at once. People should be careful what they wish for.