College study and LCWRA

[Confusedandvulnerable]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this but I’m in receipt of PIP and UC LCWRA for mental health issues.

Sitting at home all day is not helping me at all I feel, and I wanted to look at what I can do to improve this as I find a routine to be very helpful in managing these difficulties.

I’m also starting to find isolation difficult, and feel I may like to try something just to see how I am able to cope. Genuinely cannot see life improving for me if I carry on the way I am.

I had a look at a local college and what is offered as initially I trained in art years ago, but this subject has really got me nowhere I feel, and the arts is such a competitive industry.

I know you are allowed to study part time on UC. Issue is, the course I am interested in is full time, I am unable to find any part time courses that offer what I want.

Only issue is, if one is in receipt of PIP and LCWRA because they find face to face contact with others difficult then this would likely be contradicting the reasons for LCWRA.

I equally can’t afford to lose the money, but then what am I supposed to do if I cannot try and improve my life because it would go against me?

I find it appalling really that people are threatened with having the money removed if they wish to try and improve their life. I feel as though once on benefits you can’t get off them due to this.

Would I be unreasonable to just apply for a course full time, study for it and not tell them? I equally don’t want to get into trouble for doing this as I equally need the money. It’s so difficult.

If starting a course means potentially losing the money then sadly I’ll just have to forget it and remain on benefits it seems.

Can anyone give me some advice? TIA

Yes you would be unreasonable to just do it without checking first, and if you can’t afford to lose that money then you’d also be incredibly reckless to even risk it. Discuss it with them in advance as it may be fine, but of course if there are elements of your study which directly contradict your reasons for not being able to work then they are naturally going to be suspicious of that. If you can attend full time lectures etc in person then you can attend a day at work would likely be their argument, and I don’t know how you would go about refuting that.

Some full time courses actually work out at roughly part time hours- a guy in my college class was able to study and continue to receive his disability benefits. From my understanding as well pip will continue for a while after the start date of a job/course to give time to see if you’re able to maintain it. Best to call and double check with the college re overall timing of the course per week and if the pip roll on still exists.

PIP is fine. It's not means tested and they don't care if you have a full time job, a full time course or are unemployed.

What group are you in for LWCRA?

You need to tell them. Also, if there is student funding available you should take that, declare it and have benefit adjusted. If you choose to take a full time course on will you be mentally fit enough to complete it? Either you are well enough to manage a full time course (in which case you don’t really have limited capability of work related activity) or you are not. Perhaps something part time as a stepping stone to returning to education/work would be better. You don’t want to use up a full time spot then drop out because it is heavier going than initially thought.

@Mrsttcno1 Seems like it may just not be worth the risk then. I don’t trust them really they are underhanded.

May be better just dealing with the isolation factor in other ways and for now will just have to continue feeling like a scrounger.

The media doesn’t help matters or these disgusting benefits programmes broadcast on TV. It’s so damaging to one’s self worth.

It’s why despite all the criticism of it, I’m honestly partly in favour of this new health element, which may enable people to try at things without losing money.

@redalex261 Thanks but for now I just won’t bother applying for anything. Will wait and see what happens regarding this new health element.

Besides, no guarantee I’d even get anything out of a course anyway so unless I’ve got absolutely nothing to lose in trying it’s not worth the risk.

I did a foundation degree whilst in receipt of LCWRA. They were fine with it as long as I didn't do any work placement without consulting them first.

I agree about the media making it much harder. On the radio this morning, they were talking about how "nobody should be classed as too ill to work" Unsure what those who are paraplegic/completely blind/non-verbal etc etc should do?!? Ridiculous. They haven't a clue what it's like living with a debilitating and fluctuating disability

@SlowlyLurking Thanks for your reply. I decided I’m not going to bother for now.

They do make it incredibly difficult for people though. It’s almost like a vicious circle, want to try but can’t due to potentially losing the money.

Therefore people can’t improve their lives so remain stuck in the system.

*To be clear, I wasn't implying that being blind, paraplegic or non verbal is a fluctuating disability, obviously not. I mean that there's many of us who receive LCWRA who do have a disability which fluctuates (daily in my case) but have been declared unfit for work despite having had that fluctuation taken into account

There is a fair bit of leeway on ESA but you do have to be careful that what you do doesn't contradict the reasons you are claiming it.

It's a real shame that the course is full-time rather than part-time. Is there any volunteering opportunities you could do in the area you are interested in? Volunteering is also accepted on ESA providing it meets certain criteria such as not being simply unpaid work.

@SpringtimeBunny I’d honestly go as far to say that they are evil. These politicians don’t have any clue what it is like with a disability.

They also have the audacity to refer to people claiming as scroungers, when they won’t even let the disabled try some work, because if we do then we risk losing the money.

I’m sure they want us to just become so miserable and depressed that we will off ourselves. I believe they’ve got it all worked out.

@existentialpain Might just have to go with my ‘crappy’ business idea from my prior useless degree, and see if it takes off rather than risk losing the money I so need.

Just didn’t want to spend my whole life feeling like a scrounger with low self esteem, as well as isolated. Self employment will be really isolating in the long run.

It is a shame because it was something I had real interest in. Guess we can’t all follow through with our dreams sadly. The benefits system is a pure trap and needs to change.

Would you be able to share with us what type of course you're interested in? Maybe someone would be able to find you an alternative provision?

If this is something you want to do then why don’t you just have a conversation with them about it?

I think the issue really is if anything you are doing directly contradicts the reasons you receive these benefits. If you’re doing so because you cannot interact with others face to face for example, then yeah they would be well within their rights to say if you are capable of doing a full time degree which requires this then you can work.

I don’t think they are against people bettering themselves/working either, that’s why UC is on a sliding scale so you are always going to be better off doing some work, it’s not a case of if you try and work then your money is stopped, it is a scale to slide down rather than a cliff to jump off.

@SpringtimeBunny I get it’s taxpayers money and that, but gosh don’t they make us feel like shit for receiving it? Like we can help the way we were born.

I frankly dislike the way they are always watching over peoples shoulders, practically dictating what we can and can’t do when on that money when the majority claiming are deserving of it anyway. Benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to all the tax evaders.

That’s partly why I felt like finding something that’s suits me so one day I wouldn’t need to claim anymore. They’re even thinking of checking up on peoples bank accounts now too.

If its fulltime can you apply for student finance?

I'm on LCWRA and PIP and I'm pretty sure I can study but I'd get mainly student finance with possibly a little topped up by UC?

I could be wrong though, it's been a few years since I checked

@Mrsttcno1 I think my main fear is that due to my autism, if I apply, then tell them then it dosen’t work out then I’ve lost everything.

Sometimes it may seem like it’s really shit, but maybe it’s better the devil you know. Might just be better starting up a business.

Maybe I’m also too concerned about what other people would think of me if they knew my income was from benefits.

Starting up a business will provoke exactly the same problems, if any of the work you are doing there contradicts LCWRA then it will be stopped at next review.

I think the problem is that you’re focused on is wanting to try a full time degree or set up a business without risking losing the comfort blanket of UC. UC isn’t there for that reason though. It, especially LCWRA, is there to support people who physically cannot work, who couldn’t even conceive it possible to be self employed or start up a business, people who are truly unable to support themselves. It’s not there to act as a cushion for people to “follow their dreams”. This means that if they have any reason to believe that actually you COULD be working & earning money, then yes they will stop LWCRA/UC, because you would no longer be in the category of people who need it- which lots of people of course do and should be able to access it.

This is not true. You can work and receive LCWRA if whatever you are doing doesn't contradict the reasons you have it. They won't stop it just because they have a reason to believe you could do any job whatsoever. Plenty of people on LCWRA can work a little in the right role. On LCWRA you get a £600 a month work allowance that you can earn without it impacting your benefits. It isn't just for people who couldn't possible conceive they could work.

OP I would go to college and see what disability support and financial support they have that would enable you to do the course. If may meen as it is full-time that you will need to come off LCWRA but thats ok because you have other means of financial support. Or it is not possible in which case is it possible to do the course or a similar course part time, therefore allowing you to keep LCWRA.

Definitely don't right it off. I understand your worries but the worst you can just re apply for LCWRA if needs be.

Yes, but the reality is that if as OP is suggesting they want to set up a business, that will be taken into account at their next assessment and you will find that if a person is capable of managing to set up and operate a business then they are going to struggle to maintain that they have LCWRA. Part of my current job is supporting people through this process and in my experience if the assessors can make an argument for you being able to work, then they will make that argument.

We have seen first hand people who have set up even small businesses and it been decided at their next assessment that at the point you are capable of setting up a business (in one example it was an Etsy store selling digital items), corresponding with customers, taking orders, producing and providing product, managing sales etc, then they lose LCWRA because if you can do all of those things then you are capable of work.

@Mrsttcno1 I get a lot of what you are saying, but if it is a business such as sole trader, where for example you make stuff to sell from your own home, and therefore don’t interact face to face then I don’t see how that can really go against someone? As you wouldn’t be physically interacting with customers. This does seem like my only option tbf.

I’m not talking about the type of business such as a shop in the community, chippy or cafe where you would be expected to engage frequently face to face with customers.

@Mrsttcno1 is saying if you are capable of setting up a business then you are capable of working. Nothing to do with f2f etc.

As I’ve said above, you still need to be very very careful.

I have first hand had experience of supporting adults who have set things up (for example at Etsy store) and as a result upon assessment for LCWRA been changed.

Not all work requires face to face communication, and thus they can and do argue that if you are capable of ordering supplies, producing a product, marketing a product, setting up a website, taking orders, sending orders, financially operating a business venture (even a small one, like my example of an adult I assisted who had literally just set up an Etsy store selling digitally downloadable products), then you absolutely have capacity for some work and work related activities because every single one of those tasks is an example of a work related activity.