To think secondary students should get written school reports

[Giovannimilanese]

When I say ‘written’ I mean typed out, not necessarily hand written

I was going through my own old school reports from the 80s/90s recently. Twice a year there was a full written report with a paragraph from every subject teacher. I found it really interesting to read the observations and to see the way some of the teachers noticed skills/talents and weaknesses that I personally only became fully aware of much later.

My own dc have attended a mix of state/private schools. The Indies still provide decent reports with detail but my youngest is in Yr8 at the local state secondary and hasn’t had any written reports. Apparently they have stopped doing them. Twice a year they get a basic list with a number from 1 to 5 for behaviour, homework etc and once a year a grade - ‘Mastering’, ‘Securing’ etc

The only organised contact with teachers is a zoom parents meeting once a year, 5 minutes with each teacher. Is this normal?

I appreciate that writing reports must add significantly to teachers’ workloads & I’m sympathetic about that. I’ve also noticed (including at private schools) that the comments sometimes seem heavily cut & pasted anyway.

But I think the personalised feedback can be incredibly useful, both now and for reflecting back on in the future, and think it’s a shame if this is no longer the standard…

AIBU?

When I started teaching reception 15 years ago, across 2 classes we had 4 teaching assistants. This meant we could better facilitate 1:1 reading, which takes up a huge amount of time. Now we are lucky to have 1 assistant per class, who is usually 1:1 with a child or supporting behaviour needs. This means I can’t read 1:1, as who would be teaching or supervising my class in this time? Legally the ratio in primary, from reception, is 1:30 and with budget cuts a lot of schools now work with this which is why some of the things we love to do has had to go.

The difference is a lot of background paper work and evidencing. Writing longs plans, that no one else reads, but that are asked for just in case an advisor or Ofsted may need them at some point.

"Done any"

We get a termly updated list of grades and behaviour/attitude behaviour numbers. We then get a written report once a year - for my eldest that will actually in April from what the calendar tells me. And als a parents evening.

As a child in the 80s&90s we only ever got one report a year but fairly detailed written from each teacher. Going back on them they’d not be allowed these days as can be very negative for some.

I’m also a teacher. The reports take hours outside of teaching time to complete. You don’t get extra time to do them in school with someone covering your class. You’re expected to just do them, usually at home on evenings and weekends or during May half term. No way would teachers cope doing this more than once per year.

I do notice as well - a slightly pointless lack of realism.

Eg my friends child has a relative common, albeit severe manifestation, of a language based disorder which makes reading and writing exceptionally difficult.

A huge huge amount of resource is thrown (by school, parents, tutors etc) at trying to help this child achieve the "required" level (often unsuccessfully).
This effort and objective is of course a positive thing, but my mother (teacher) recalls an era when there was a degree of mentality that this sort of superhuman effort was to a certain extent pointless. Children who struggled so much were directed towards alternative provisions & careers etc where it was less of an issue. The teachers were not held as accountable for the impossible task of trying to achieve a learning outcome that was nigh on impossible.

As a parent, I agree with you. I love getting reports for DD and as an involved parent it's invaluable in promoting her progress at home in a way that pure numbers alone won't do. For example, DD stopped progressing in her reading and I couldn't work out why as we read every day. The report told me it was tricky words she was having an issue with. So I bought the tricky words flashcards pack and really worked on that and she's now one of the strongest readers in her class.

However, as a secondary teacher, I just can't see how feasible it is to this. My daughter's teacher teaches 28 kids. I teach 10 classes of 34. Writing 340 reports is not realistic unless I was taken off timetable for a significant amount of time and provided cover that didn't require planning, preparation or marking.

Some classes are shared by several teaches due to low staff numbers, so even though I am considered the main teacher, I may only see them for an hour per week and I am going to be really honest and say there are many kids in that class whose name I don't know. My workload is so massive, I cannot keep an ongoing chart with observations. Since covid, I think a lot of teachers feel we are firefighting. The increase in behaviour issues, the increase in SEND, the increase in MH issues, the increase in massive learning gaps, the drop in reading ages meaning they are not able to even access the exam questions even if I teach them everything they need to know. The exams are harder, the classes are bigger, parents are less supportive than they were in the 70s (MN seems to be a bubble of very supportive parents but in real life I may have very few of those parents. The majority don't care anymore or blame the teacher or other students).

We've had a massive increase in physical assaults on teachers which means we've had to stop all contact between class teachers and parents - parents evenings remained on zoom, the school doors require a staff pass to access, email addresses were hidden from the site, parents are encouraged to email the HOY in the first instance, staff are advised to go through HOY if they want to contact home. I'm genuinely anxious of saying anything negative, even in a constructive way, because of the number of complaints this has received (I recently got three complaints from parents for giving them less than a grade 5 on their GCSE mock as it was apparently damaging their MH and they accused me of being dismissive or hostile when I pointed out I followed a mark scheme). This is a leafy secondary in an affluent area.

We cannot even begin to compare teaching in the 70s now. It's not even nearly the same.

My mum kept all of my reports (primary and secondary). I finished secondary school in 2010. I have loved looking back on them, it's so interesting as an adult. Like someone else commented, teachers see things you might not recognise about yourself until your older. Or, they also see the things you remember and I'm like wow that observation is spot on 😂.
Sad to read young people today don't have this.

Reports and parents evenings used to be the only contact parents would get with the school. They now have apps where they see everything and can keep track of attendance/behaviour issues/achievements/data. Staff are expected to be contactable via email or phones so it’s not like parents/carers are kept in the dark without a written report.

Their workload really isn't lighter. 11's and 13's might have gone but they will be involved in transition work for the new year 7's joining in September, they will be taken for cover, they will be updating schemes of work, preparing for the year ahead, doing a million and one other things that are instantly put in place of their 11/13 lessons, yet again people outside education have no clue how much extra stuff is put on teachers beyond teaching.

When I started teaching reception 15 years ago, across 2 classes we had 4 teaching assistants.

Gosh you were lucky. My mum taught in a deprived area and only ever had one part time TA.

I was at school in the 90s and there was 1 TA in reception, but fewer kids in the class. more like 24 than 30. Definitely far less of the behavioural issues there are now.

Reports and parents evenings used to be the only contact parents would get with the school. They now have apps where they see everything and can keep track of attendance/behaviour issues/achievements/data. Staff are expected to be contactable via email or phones so it’s not like parents/carers are kept in the dark without a written report.

I think this is true at secondary but absolutely is not at primary. We have no apps to see any of this. Google classroom is used but only to post a spelling sheet once a week. Given a paper copy is also handed out I'd be fine with the teacher not bothering with the app.

They did once give us a sign up for a maths app, but then after two weeks never actually set it up again or put the work on it.

Definitely was lucky, but this really shouldn’t be the case it should be standard. I always think of it as imagine is 30 4-5 years olds were dropped off at your house for the day and you were all on your own. You just wouldn’t allow yourself to get in that position, but it is what is expected of teachers all the time. But then people moan we don’t read 1:1 or differentiate enough.

Someone mentioned the schemes that try and keep classes moving together, it’s because there often is no one else to take groups to stretch highers or support lowers. This also adds to workload as you are trying so hard to make sure everyone is learning, knowing it is impossible for some to access and not challenging enough for others but your just one person and you only have 1 hour assigned to maths before you have to move on.

It’s a crazy job, but we do it because we love it. Parents who want more feedback will just need to reach out more to get it, we will always strive to pass this on when we can.

My child’s secondary school provide reports twice a year but in all honesty the very short comment is a waste for everyone. Eg needs to improve focus, needs to concentrate more (he has ADHD) waste of time writing that, we know and their job to help focus and concentration in their lessons at school.
I write reports as a primary school teacher and they take me about 1 hour per child (and I’m a very experienced teacher). It takes very careful consideration on how to phrase things, whilst being accurate. 30 extra hours (usually during my half term). Even if I did 2 after school ever day it would take a month to write them. It borders on unmanageable just for one class of 30. No chance secondary schools could do it with the amount of children they teach. They probably really don’t know them well enough to write more than a short sentence relating to their assessments.

Apart from the fact that there is no time to produce individual reports most of mine would be like this:

"John does no work in class, I take the time to make sure John understands the aims of the lesson however, when I ask him to do some work his usual response is 'fuck off you old bag'. He had to be constantly asked to put his phone away, he never does put his phone away and often takes and receives calls in class. His usual response to me asking him to put his phone away is 'fuck off, I'll do what I want'. John never has a pen. John arrives to each lesson with a tube of Pringles and a can of Monster drink, no food or drink is allowed in class but John seems to think this rule doesn't apply to him. In his two English lessons this week John called me a 'cunt', a 'stupid old bag' and filmed me on his mobile phone whilst I was asking him to leave the classroom (because he took all of the dictionaries out of the cupboard and threw them around the classroom). Security came and removed him for a 'cooling off' period. He will be back on Monday as the school don't see his behaviour as an issue and will not exclude or suspend him.

Mary works extremely hard and is a very diligent student. Unfortunately most of my time is taken up with the behaviour of disruptive students and I can't give Mary the time or attention she needs.

I spent 15 hours one May half term writing carefully differentiated UCAS subject references for year 12. There were 125 of them. Couldn't have really done it quicker.

And got told off by my MIL for bringing work home!

My school reports always said “shy and quiet” my Mum would be very nasty to me about this to the point I was scared to bring my reports home as I knew I’d get attacked for it. As my children have grown up I’ve also been told they’re shy ,quiet students and feel the teachers expect me to view this negatively. I don’t. I see it as a personality trait and since both do very well academically I don’t see how this is of any importance. For me sticking with the facts and numbers/targets met is enough.

This made me laugh, mostly because it’s so true! This could be reflected down into primary too. This year I have been told to fuck off my a 4 year old many times, evacuated my classroom due to a child deciding to throw chairs at my class sitting on the carpet. Had to close areas of learning during play because a child chose to instead use the tables in that area as a climbing frame.

That’s when I wasn’t in the toilet first thing removing nappies from children who are perfectly capable of using the toilet in school, put parents still insist on sending them in a full on nappy (5 years old) and toilet training others. Then spending time
in the hall showing children how to use a knife and fork to eat their food.

This does sadly mean some of the amazing children in my class absolutely don’t get the time or input they deserve and then when I have to sit and write lots of things about them it adds to the challenge.

But I go back each day because these kids deserve better and I will give them my all!

But when you were at school in the 90s there wasn’t email. Parents can - and do - contact teachers at any time about anything. They don’t need to wait for a parents evening. The level of contact between parents and staff is so much greater now hence why written reports and parents evenings are not as needed as they once were.
Also, secondary staff teach hundreds of children and simply don’t have to capacity to write individual report for all students.

What has changed? Do you not watch the news? Ten years of funding cuts, staff cuts, increased class sizes, jam packed timetables, no one to do cover so any free time used to cover other absence. Lots of this absence due to stress/workload, I could go on. In ten years alone I think my standard weekly workload has probably roughly doubled. The teaching day is so full now that absolutely everything - admin, planning, marking, meetings, entering data, training for SEN, replying to emails, sorting trips and clubs etc etc has to be done around it so it’s basically like 2 almost full time jobs that need to be done simultaneously. A few years ago there were more gaps in the timetable and space to crack on with things between lessons. That’s why they’ve had to find whatever shortcuts can be found. The government/media has beautifully spread a lazy teacher narrative which helps to avoid the issue but, really, any parent of a child in a state school in England should be applying pressure for improved funding for schools (not talking about teacher salaries - more teachers, more time, more resources would be preferable to me than a pay rise) as it’s the only way things are going to improve.

My dd gets one a year during the summer term. A couple of sentences for each subject. We also don’t get a parents evening where you get 5/10 mins with each subject teacher, just the form tutor. My parents used to be able to meet my subject teachers once a year in the sports hall and get feedback on each subject.

Its crap. Education system as it is currently is crap. But that’s a whole other thread.

I started teaching 36 yrs ago. I could open a textbook and teach direct from there when I first started teaching. If there were any kids with SEN who couldn't understand the work, then it was up to them to seek me out in their own time for extra help. Today, I have to cater for the individual needs of all pupils in a class. Take my yr 8 bottom set. 32 kids, 17 of them on the SEN register. Two need worksheets on special coloured paper (one yellow, one buff - dyslexia), 8 need paper table top copies of anything I put on the board, 3 need to have key words available....I could go on, oh and then there are the 5 boys whose behaviour means they have to be constantly watched. The lesson has to include a 'do now' task for when they enter the room. The register is now electronic and is used to find kids who are bunking ( child protection) so MUST be done in the first 10 mins of each lesson ( years ago a paper register was done, just for my use). The kids turn up with no equipment (it's a rich area) so I have to deal with that, mostly out of my own pocket. The lesson must be accessible to all in the class BUT must stretch the most able (scaffolding for those of lower ability). The lesson (maths) must include literacy - so key words etc. It must be relevant to the kids so peehaps linking it to real life skills, which in turn can include PSE topics. In the end, I must plan a plenary which brings together the key aspects of the lesson. Oh, each lesson must include 'thinking hard' tasks. The lessons are continually disrupted by notes from Pastoral to see kids from the class for various issues ( behaviour, anxiety, chasing up detentions etc etc), those kids then come back to class having missed 10 mins and then have to be caught up.
But yeah, I'll add an extra God knows how many hours onto my 'do double the hours I'm paid for week' so that little Johnny's Mum has a paper copy of 'cut and paste' meaningless statements!!!
I love teaching, I love the kids I teach and would not want to do any other career, BUT I hate the admin.

One thing that has massively increased workload for my department in recent years is the inability to recruit teachers. We are currently 2 teachers down which means those kids do not have a permanent qualified maths teacher in front of them, they have supply teachers who may not be maths teachers and who change regularly. The department has to plan lessons for them and do their marking. This is a huge workload! And then the HOD also has to spend a lot of time rejigging timetables to try to ensure that the kids get at least some time with a maths teacher, and even more time responding to parental complaints about what a shit deal their kid is getting.

We get short reports in two terms with grades for effort, organisation, homework, class work and an overall achievement grade for each subject. In the third term (which rotates) we get all of that plus a specific written long report. It's sent a week before parent's evening.

Seems very poor not to have that.

@noblegiraffe my dd went through the whole of year 9 with no physics teacher, no textiles teacher and no sociology teacher. She has missed so much work and then the pressure is applied this year for year 10 mocks. The amount of work we have to do at home with her is crazy. My parents didn’t have to do this. It’s sad for the students, they are getting a raw deal and I’m not surprised it’s hard to recruit teachers with the pressure they’re under

Try emailing the teacher directly (get email from school office if you don't have it) and ask them for specific explanation and advice.

Often teachers are very helpful when contacted directly, most are happy to assist genuine, polite enquiries from parents/carers.

As a teacher, I would actually like to be able to create these. We have lots to say about our students. However, unfortunately the workload has gone up significantly for teachers - I'm 31 and colleagues who have been teaching for 25 years+ confirm the workload has shot up.

It's simply not possible.

The school I used to work in, my first year had tutors write written reports and a lot of these ended up being adapted copy and paste jobs because of the time constraints. Plus we would have to infer how students might be doing based on the numerical grades parents got for students' different subjects anyway.

I teach almost 300 students just for context and work 7.30-4/4.30, then again until 8.30 when I get home, one day on the weekend (outside of exam marking). Teachers are leaving the profession in droves for a reason.