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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask about ND masking in girls - school say she seems 'fine'

138 replies

seriouslynonames · 08/03/2024 19:31

My DD8 is in year 3. Waiting for private assessment for ADHD (GP suggested quicker than NHS esp as infant school at the time saw no issues).

She is extremely anxious all the time, about lots of things, and it shows up in her body in the form of unsettled tum and nausea. She has short periods most days of seeming more relaxed and happy, but spends much of each day on edge, nervous, worried or angry.

She says she hates school, doesn't want to go. Being there makes her angry, makes her want to scream. She feels nauseous or funny tum most mornings (also for weekend out of school activities) and goes to bed feeling similar most nights. Says school is too loud, too many strict rules, being told what to do all day, can't concentrate, friendship issues make he'd upset or angry. She feels the need to move all the time. She only enjoys extra curricular activities before/after school, plus art. She isn't struggling academically so far. She also worries about feeling or being ill at school or others being sick in front of her at school. That's a big issue at the moment.

When I talk to school they say she is doing well, gets work done to a good standard, isn't disruptive, follows directions, keeps her desk neat, puts her hand up, takes turns, is polite and helpful, gets on fine with peers and adults etc. they can see the fidgeting but that's it. They have given her ear defenders and a wobble cushion after I mentioned a couple of things back in the autumn, but would not have offered if I hadn't raised it.

At home we see such a different side to what school see. Extreme anger, aggression, destruction. Very low self-esteem and very worrying negative self talk. Constant anxiety and physical symptoms/feeling ill with it. Always moving, can't sit still.

She didn't make it to school Monday to Weds this week. Said she felt sick and tummy felt jumbled up. Said it was worse than the usual nervous feeling she gets so I took it at face value and kept her off. Tried to go in Tues but ended up coming home before school started as felt sick and looked green. Then Weds she seemed better so got ready to go in then it was too much, she just couldn't leave the house she was too nervous about still feeling ill and absolutely would/could not go, hates school, doesn't ever want to go.

Spoke to school today (she went in today/yesterday after a struggle) who want to address the school avoidance but repeated that when in school she seems 'totally fine'. And to be fair to school, when she comes out at the end of the day she is generally ok. It's only later in the evening when it all goes to s*.

I just want some views on whether it's possible for a child to mask so fully that despite me having been pretty open with the school about what we see and what DD says to us, that school just don't see anything? Surely DD couldn't make up all this stuff she tells us about how school makes her feel? We know the anxiety is very real and the anger. And I believe what she says about how school makes her feel. But then I start to doubt myself when school say how completely fine she is!

Would welcome others' experiences of masking please x

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Ialwaystry · 11/03/2024 11:37

seriouslynonames · 08/03/2024 19:31

My DD8 is in year 3. Waiting for private assessment for ADHD (GP suggested quicker than NHS esp as infant school at the time saw no issues).

She is extremely anxious all the time, about lots of things, and it shows up in her body in the form of unsettled tum and nausea. She has short periods most days of seeming more relaxed and happy, but spends much of each day on edge, nervous, worried or angry.

She says she hates school, doesn't want to go. Being there makes her angry, makes her want to scream. She feels nauseous or funny tum most mornings (also for weekend out of school activities) and goes to bed feeling similar most nights. Says school is too loud, too many strict rules, being told what to do all day, can't concentrate, friendship issues make he'd upset or angry. She feels the need to move all the time. She only enjoys extra curricular activities before/after school, plus art. She isn't struggling academically so far. She also worries about feeling or being ill at school or others being sick in front of her at school. That's a big issue at the moment.

When I talk to school they say she is doing well, gets work done to a good standard, isn't disruptive, follows directions, keeps her desk neat, puts her hand up, takes turns, is polite and helpful, gets on fine with peers and adults etc. they can see the fidgeting but that's it. They have given her ear defenders and a wobble cushion after I mentioned a couple of things back in the autumn, but would not have offered if I hadn't raised it.

At home we see such a different side to what school see. Extreme anger, aggression, destruction. Very low self-esteem and very worrying negative self talk. Constant anxiety and physical symptoms/feeling ill with it. Always moving, can't sit still.

She didn't make it to school Monday to Weds this week. Said she felt sick and tummy felt jumbled up. Said it was worse than the usual nervous feeling she gets so I took it at face value and kept her off. Tried to go in Tues but ended up coming home before school started as felt sick and looked green. Then Weds she seemed better so got ready to go in then it was too much, she just couldn't leave the house she was too nervous about still feeling ill and absolutely would/could not go, hates school, doesn't ever want to go.

Spoke to school today (she went in today/yesterday after a struggle) who want to address the school avoidance but repeated that when in school she seems 'totally fine'. And to be fair to school, when she comes out at the end of the day she is generally ok. It's only later in the evening when it all goes to s*.

I just want some views on whether it's possible for a child to mask so fully that despite me having been pretty open with the school about what we see and what DD says to us, that school just don't see anything? Surely DD couldn't make up all this stuff she tells us about how school makes her feel? We know the anxiety is very real and the anger. And I believe what she says about how school makes her feel. But then I start to doubt myself when school say how completely fine she is!

Would welcome others' experiences of masking please x

Remember kids want to learn, they want to behave and do as they are told, they just 'cant' when you are seeing these behaviours.

purpleme12 · 11/03/2024 19:09

Ialwaystry · 11/03/2024 11:34

Tell them what you think she needs.
I.e regular breaks, reduced timetable. Someone she trusts to talk to. Mine used to take in fidget toys. she had to be told at the beginning of every day what was happening, She couldn't cope when a certain friend or teacher was off.
Don't drag ur child to school or allow them to forcefully remover her from you.
Just listen to your child and keep her off if necessary ( it's not worth it in the long run because she will lose trust in you).
My child became violent amd aggressive to me and now I low demand parent her.
Read as much as you can and the explosive child book/also on audio and pda.
She sounds like she is nearing burn out, which is where my child is now.

I would be really interested to know some examples of low demand parenting
And what would you say to a child when it's something non negotiable?
I really struggle knowing when people talk about this

Ialwaystry · 11/03/2024 19:22

purpleme12 · 11/03/2024 19:09

I would be really interested to know some examples of low demand parenting
And what would you say to a child when it's something non negotiable?
I really struggle knowing when people talk about this

Giving them autonomy
It's what works for you, but everything is a demand to a child with burnout and pad.
Read the book the explosive child and Declarative language. It's all about working collaboratively rather than demand.
For ex, brush your teeth now, give them choices, would you like ti brush your teeth before or after breakfast? It means they are in control.
Also look at this site.
https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/
There are also loads of Facebook groups, I.e not fine in school, and loads more for neurodivers children. There's a wealth of knowlesge out there.

HOME

Welcome to PDA Society Information, training and support for PDA people, parents & carers, and professionals. The PDA Society is the only specialist PDA charity in the UK. We are a small team, and all of us have a personal connection with PDA. Ou...

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk

KateLizAn · 11/03/2024 19:30

OP, your post and the replies have brought me to tears. Your post could have been about my 10 year old son. School are just completely refuting it and make me feel really stupid and laughed at parents evening when I asked if he possibly had ASD.

On the back of this thread I am going to take him to the GP. Thank you.

Kissmystarfish · 11/03/2024 19:32

I could have written this about my daughter!!!

she got diagnosed with adhd. We home educate her and it’s worked for us. However I realise this wouldn’t work for everyone else.

eduwot · 11/03/2024 19:48

Yeah, I don't think a lot of school staff really get masking. Your daughter is basically holding it together all day and then it all comes out. The coke bottle effect.

My daughter was just like yours. Unfortunately, everything did come crashing down in the end and she took a long time to recover from autistic burn out. If she is finding school that hard, try and get to the bottom of what would make the environment OK for her to learn and be comfortable in. Some children aren't going to ever be OK in a mainstream school. For my daughter, it took home education for her to be able to recover and learn. She is a different child now and doing brilliantly.
Not everyone can home ed obviously, but that's what's working for us. I have enlisted lots of outside help that suits out not very large budget!
There are many ways to learn that don't involve mainstream school. There are some amazing specialist schools around too,
Don't let school bully you into anything. I spent so long forcing my child in; she spent everyday trying to avoid going in. The result was no learning at all. Don't leave things til they get totally out of hand, like we did. We wasted 2 years plus. Good luck to you both.

purpleme12 · 11/03/2024 19:55

Ialwaystry · 11/03/2024 19:22

Giving them autonomy
It's what works for you, but everything is a demand to a child with burnout and pad.
Read the book the explosive child and Declarative language. It's all about working collaboratively rather than demand.
For ex, brush your teeth now, give them choices, would you like ti brush your teeth before or after breakfast? It means they are in control.
Also look at this site.
https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/
There are also loads of Facebook groups, I.e not fine in school, and loads more for neurodivers children. There's a wealth of knowlesge out there.

I gave my child a choice yesterday.
She made her choice.
Then after changed her mind. I stuck to the rule, said she'd made her choice so can't do the original option and she still kicked off and did the aggression ☹️

Ialwaystry · 11/03/2024 20:01

purpleme12 · 11/03/2024 19:55

I gave my child a choice yesterday.
She made her choice.
Then after changed her mind. I stuck to the rule, said she'd made her choice so can't do the original option and she still kicked off and did the aggression ☹️

Children esp neuro diverse can't always explain what they want and changing there emind is fine too. Just collaborate again,.
You took the choice away from her. She wanted to please you and then changed her mind.
Honestly I've done all the stuff society and schools want you to do, it doesn't work for all kids. You're child needs you to now parent her differently. Being violent and aggressive is telling you its not working for her. She doesn't want to disobey you and be violent.
She can't, not won't!
What you think is bad behaviour is telling you everything is not OK for her.

purpleme12 · 11/03/2024 20:07

Ialwaystry · 11/03/2024 20:01

Children esp neuro diverse can't always explain what they want and changing there emind is fine too. Just collaborate again,.
You took the choice away from her. She wanted to please you and then changed her mind.
Honestly I've done all the stuff society and schools want you to do, it doesn't work for all kids. You're child needs you to now parent her differently. Being violent and aggressive is telling you its not working for her. She doesn't want to disobey you and be violent.
She can't, not won't!
What you think is bad behaviour is telling you everything is not OK for her.

Whatever I try doesn't work ☹️
Unless I do whatever she wants obviously but that isn't possible in life all the time

Ialwaystry · 11/03/2024 20:13

purpleme12 · 11/03/2024 20:07

Whatever I try doesn't work ☹️
Unless I do whatever she wants obviously but that isn't possible in life all the time

Please read, research and join supportgroups. It will become clear when you research more.
There's plenty of families, children and mums out there like us

Springingintolife · 11/03/2024 20:33

following

eduwot · 11/03/2024 20:36

I just wanted to add that my experience of Early 'help' was shockingly bad. It felt to me as if the main reason for their intervention is to suss out whether YOU are part of the problem. Your family is basically investigated and then they decide what 'help' you might benefit from. It was decided that my child wasn't violent enough, wasn't suicidal and we were OK parents, so they did naff all. What the worker did do was baked some cookies with my child, and bizarrely, actually commented that the she could be prosecuted for school non - attendance! I have heard of it happening to parents, but telling an anxiously child that kind of misinformation is pretty unforgivable. Plus, she had fuck all understanding of neurodiversity or anxiety.

purpleme12 · 11/03/2024 20:36

eduwot · 11/03/2024 20:36

I just wanted to add that my experience of Early 'help' was shockingly bad. It felt to me as if the main reason for their intervention is to suss out whether YOU are part of the problem. Your family is basically investigated and then they decide what 'help' you might benefit from. It was decided that my child wasn't violent enough, wasn't suicidal and we were OK parents, so they did naff all. What the worker did do was baked some cookies with my child, and bizarrely, actually commented that the she could be prosecuted for school non - attendance! I have heard of it happening to parents, but telling an anxiously child that kind of misinformation is pretty unforgivable. Plus, she had fuck all understanding of neurodiversity or anxiety.

This is what puts me off see

eduwot · 11/03/2024 20:43

@purpleme12 It was terrible. It is obviously different in different areas and depends who you are triage to, but it was unhelpful and intrusive. I never want another 'professional' in my home again.

PaperCrane555 · 11/03/2024 20:46

Our early help were quite good. They attended CPA meetings and funded therapy for me.

purpleme12 · 11/03/2024 20:48

I have read different things about early help.
I have trouble trusting people anyway so that probably doesn't help.
Yes I do get worried that people/professionals will try to blame me/my parenting. Maybe that's just me being stupid.

seriouslynonames · 11/03/2024 21:56

eduwot · 11/03/2024 19:48

Yeah, I don't think a lot of school staff really get masking. Your daughter is basically holding it together all day and then it all comes out. The coke bottle effect.

My daughter was just like yours. Unfortunately, everything did come crashing down in the end and she took a long time to recover from autistic burn out. If she is finding school that hard, try and get to the bottom of what would make the environment OK for her to learn and be comfortable in. Some children aren't going to ever be OK in a mainstream school. For my daughter, it took home education for her to be able to recover and learn. She is a different child now and doing brilliantly.
Not everyone can home ed obviously, but that's what's working for us. I have enlisted lots of outside help that suits out not very large budget!
There are many ways to learn that don't involve mainstream school. There are some amazing specialist schools around too,
Don't let school bully you into anything. I spent so long forcing my child in; she spent everyday trying to avoid going in. The result was no learning at all. Don't leave things til they get totally out of hand, like we did. We wasted 2 years plus. Good luck to you both.

Thanks @eduwot I already feel that we are pushing her to go in and that makes me a bit uncomfortable, I definitely don't want to get to the point of forcing her - I don't think I could, she is strong! The challenge is to figure out what school might be able to do to make it more welcoming for DD, if that's even possible. I don't think she will ever love school, and I don't know whether making school 'bearable' is the ambition I want to set. I am thinking home educating might be in our future - I don't want to rush to it too quickly in case we can make school work, but equally want to heed to warnings to not leave it too late... Such a balancing act!

OP posts:
seriouslynonames · 11/03/2024 21:57

I am in two minds about Early Help, it's good to know there are positive stories!

OP posts:
seriouslynonames · 11/03/2024 22:00

Kissmystarfish · 11/03/2024 19:32

I could have written this about my daughter!!!

she got diagnosed with adhd. We home educate her and it’s worked for us. However I realise this wouldn’t work for everyone else.

Good to hear home education is working @Kissmystarfish , I need to find out more about the options

Good luck @KateLizAn I hope the GP is helpful

OP posts:
Ialwaystry · 11/03/2024 23:03

eduwot · 11/03/2024 20:36

I just wanted to add that my experience of Early 'help' was shockingly bad. It felt to me as if the main reason for their intervention is to suss out whether YOU are part of the problem. Your family is basically investigated and then they decide what 'help' you might benefit from. It was decided that my child wasn't violent enough, wasn't suicidal and we were OK parents, so they did naff all. What the worker did do was baked some cookies with my child, and bizarrely, actually commented that the she could be prosecuted for school non - attendance! I have heard of it happening to parents, but telling an anxiously child that kind of misinformation is pretty unforgivable. Plus, she had fuck all understanding of neurodiversity or anxiety.

Most don't. I had one when my child was younger.
Now I'm in charge. I have an intense one and she understands how I parent my child now.

Ialwaystry · 11/03/2024 23:06

seriouslynonames · 11/03/2024 21:56

Thanks @eduwot I already feel that we are pushing her to go in and that makes me a bit uncomfortable, I definitely don't want to get to the point of forcing her - I don't think I could, she is strong! The challenge is to figure out what school might be able to do to make it more welcoming for DD, if that's even possible. I don't think she will ever love school, and I don't know whether making school 'bearable' is the ambition I want to set. I am thinking home educating might be in our future - I don't want to rush to it too quickly in case we can make school work, but equally want to heed to warnings to not leave it too late... Such a balancing act!

It's a very hard decision.
Mine struggled from half way through yr 5. By secondary she was struggling every day and I honestly wished if acted earlier. I lost a lot of trust from her and I regret that.

Ialwaystry · 11/03/2024 23:08

purpleme12 · 11/03/2024 20:48

I have read different things about early help.
I have trouble trusting people anyway so that probably doesn't help.
Yes I do get worried that people/professionals will try to blame me/my parenting. Maybe that's just me being stupid.

Not stupid at all. I don't trust them either due to a bad experience.
I have one bow and it's on my terms.
I parent my child low demand now.
You are the expert of your child, not them.

Pekoe78 · 11/03/2024 23:11

The video above is a brilliant illustration of masking in girls.

slithytoveisascientist · 13/03/2024 16:07

This is an amazing thread and my experience echos so many of the others here:

We have an appt for DD with SENCO on Monday.

I have no idea what to be asking for as DD masks so well.

For instance they have a traffic light system for behaviour which i think is horrible and so shameful for DD, it really upsets her. I would love for this to be removed for her but not sure how they would manage discipline in class. Any ideas?

DD is desperate not to stand out and to seem 'normal' so refuses help like kick bands etc. I think she would like fidget toys but this allowance has been abused by her in the past - showing them off to other kids etc .

What could I ask the school for?

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