how to handle son's behaviour and learning at school

[pain1nthearse]

My son is currently in Year 5 (turning 10 in few weeks) and up to this year has always been well behaved in school (to my knowledge). Up until year 3 his learning and attitude to school were good - excellent at reading and comprehension and meeting expectations in all other subjects. However, from Year 3 onwards, I have been called in every year by that year's teacher at about a third of the way in to the school year, to discuss his learning. The teachers have felt that he starts to disengage, isn't able to start tasks on his own, lacks confidence/independence and struggles to complete some activities. So support has been given (each year) whereby he has usually been moved to nearer the teacher and the teacher checks in on him every lesson, gives him additional help etc. I've then checked in with them every few weeks and the response has usually been that he's gained confidence and is doing better. We did start additional maths tuition last year as that subject seemed to be the one he struggled with most - he still goes and it does seem to have helped his confidence in maths.

However, this year the teacher approached me about a month ago - same story but this time it is coupled with poor behaviour. Lots of talking in class, being disruptive (poking friends with pencil, climbing under the table, burped really loudly whilst teacher telling rest of class off). All low level but incredibly annoying for the teacher, those he is disrupting and also means he misses the input part of the lesson so of course doesn't know what to do later on. She has had to bring him back during lunch to finish work because he barely writes anything in lessons and he is scoring badly in end of maths unit tests (4/20 and 6/20 etc). I showed these end of unit tests to his maths tutor and she couldn't believe it. Said, I know he can do many more of these questions as he does them with us.

We came up with a plan to reward him at the end of the week for good behaviour and completing work in class (so just trying to get him to do what he should be doing!) Last week went well but this week not so well. She has had to move him every single day, sometimes more than once. Some days he has hardly produced anything, although unsurprisingly he did really well today - took part in discussions and completed his work (he knew I would be chatting to her at the end of the day). The teacher has said it's her problem in that she is clearly not engaging him with her teaching and that she knows he can do so much better than he is. She clearly wants to help.

I'm at a loss as to what to do. I'm worried he's falling further and further behind (I'm a TA in a Year 6 class so know what will be expected next academic year). He doesn't seem to care about the consequences for poor behaviour at school (the being moved). The disengagement shows he is trying to communicate something but I don't know what? I wonder if he has inattentive ADHD as his focus/concentration is poor but then when he's doing something he enjoys (art/drawing) he can focus. He seems immature for his age so I wonder is he just a bit of a late bloomer??

Should I give consequences at home by taking away things i know he does care about i.e. gaming time? Or is it enough just to not reward him because he hasn't achieved what he was supposed to? However, I think the poor behaviour can't just go on and it will without consequences he cares about.

Gosh - sorry this is long. AIBU to give consequences at home? Where do i go with this?? Thanks if you got this far!

Bump….anyone????

I don't think rewarding him for not disrupting the class, was the right way to go.It is minimum accepted behaviour!
Yes taking his gaming away if he doesn't behave at school that day , is what you are going to have to do.

Ask the teacher to send home unfinished work as well

I think you're on the right track with your thoughts about ADHD and it would be helpful for you and the teacher to look at strategies to help.

Have you tried asking him - so, for example the maths test that his tutor said he could have answered a lot more of the questions correctly. Not in a "We are cross with you" way but a "You can't like getting a low mark like this, can you articulate what it is that means you can do these questions with the tutor, but not when in school" type way. Emphasising you (and the teacher) are trying to find a way to help. What is it that makes it difficult to work?

If he can work in a 1:1 situation but not in class it is likely to be issues with focus and concentration.

Try asking the tutor to get him to do a task independently for 10 mins or so and see how he manages.

I personally wouldn’t give him a home consequence right now. I would however have a good incentive to have a ‘good’ week in school.

DS2 was quite similar and at around this age ended up sitting right near the teacher all the time. Once she said he could move back to his old table and he said, no it’s ok, I’ll just end up back here. So he really did need that focus and sitting there wasn’t a punishment.

I can’t lie, education was tricky with him until he got to 6th form when he really engaged with the subjects he’d chosen. Went on to 2 degrees. Still struggles to focus and organise himself but doing just fine and happy.

Hmm, tricky one. As someone whose dc are older, I remember this stage well and like you, I used to get frustrated when dc were not doing what I thought they should be doing.

Looking back though, I can see now that there was always a reason, but I just couldn't see that reason at the time.

You are right about the maturity, and many boys are slower to mature than girls. This should really not be a problem because it's just how individuals are. Except it becomes a problem at school when they are expected to keep up with their peers.

My advice would be:

1. If you can afford it, employ a good tutor once or twice a week. Someone with a positive mindset who gives lots of praise. Work on the same topics as school are doing to give him a boost. This will increase your ds's confidence in school work.

1. If you can, get your ds involved in other sociable things away from school - cubs, sports, swimming classes, ice skating etc. This will give another significant element to his life, so it's not just all school, school, school.

1. Make a time each day to talk about school - maybe casually when you are walking the dog, or maybe over hot chocolate and biscuits when he comes home each day. Ask open questions and let him tell you about his day. Share a few anecdotes about your own childhood to see if he opens up about things that are going through his mind - such as when you found things difficult as a 10 yr old, when you were bullied or left out of things, anything you were worried about. Keep the chats short and mostly lightweight. The important thing is to do them every day, so he feels he has his moment to share problems if he has them.

Good luck OP. 🙂

A week is obviously too long for him to work for a reward if it's only had an impact on a Friday. I'd look at linking a small reward (screen time?) each day to whether he's completed his work and been sensible at school.

Even if he does have ADHD, incentivising him to work harder to self-regulate is a valid strategy. Sadly for kids with ADHD, they do have to put more work into just following the same routines/ expectations as everyone else.

He may need other things to help- ear defenders, extra movement breaks, fidget opportunities, shorter tasks etc.

It does sounds as though he's struggling with attention, especially as what you're describing is him going off on tangents, fidgeting, doing 'something' when he's not being actively engaged but is being expected to just follow along with the rest of the class.

Being focused on something physical that doesn't require a long introduction, like art, and doing well with 1:1 attention (meaning he hasn't got the distractions of the classroom clutter, displays and other children) also supports your theory.

Other things to consider are;

1. Can he hear her?
2. Can he see?

Not being able to hear clearly over the classroom noise or distance to the back of the class would affect attention, as would not being able to see the board - and art doesn't require distance vision or spoken communication.

Thanks everyone for your advice. It's really helpful. I've just sat him down to chat about his behaviour and what might be going on for him and he has (finally) admitted that he often doesn't understand what the teacher is asking of him. He finds it hard to focus on what she is saying and doesn't like to say he doesn't know what to do because her repeating herself doesn't always help. English, Science and R.E are the worst subjects for him in terms of understanding but I suspect that's because they are more 'abstract' compared with maths. He hates writing anything and looks like a rabbit in the headlights sometimes when I try to get him to do extra writing at home. I wonder if he has dysgraphia too.

Anyway we have had a big chat about behaviour and he knows it's unacceptable at the moment. I just don't know where to go now with my suspicions about ADHD/dysgraphia? I don't mind going privately but will it be helpful? I worry about SATs next year so accessing support like extra time / a scribe would be helpful so getting a diagnosis would be preferable I guess. Can anyone advise on what to do next please?

That sounds like a load of codswallop!
He doesn't understand English a d science, and yet is underperformed very badly in maths?
A 10 year old knows that climbing under the desk, attacking other students and interrupting the teacher with loud burping, is not the way to respond to not understanding! He thinks he is the Big I am.

You need yo sort him out OP.When he gets to secondary school there will be none of this pussy footing round his rude, disruptive behaviour.He will get one hell of a shock!

My daughter had very similar struggles but without disrupting others. In year eight she's being referred for autism and inattentive adhd assessment. That said, we see all the same behaviours at home plus anxiety and meltdowns.

No great advice for the short term but would say that linking a reward to learning/behaviour could become tricky in the long term, I get it and have done it myself in the past when mine were little but they really need to have that intrinsic motivation otherwise you end up having to reward constantly, and an end of week reward can feel like such a long time away - could create a bit of an attitude of well I’ve been difficult on Monday and Tuesday so might as well give up on the rest of the week.

What are his interests is there any way to tie some learning into that? (eg find out what he’s studying that half term and go on a day out to support that learning, might feel like he has something to contribute in class time that way?)
sounds like he’s doing great with the maths tutor, check what scheme his school are using as they may be teaching the content in a different way.

Hope he turns a corner soon 😊

Missed your last post…
Could you ask for a short meeting with the Senco and class teacher to see if they suspect dysgraphia or similar? At least they can look out for the signs if it’s on their Radar
Don’t ask once and drop it though you need to be fairly persistent, as I’m sure you know working in a school yourself

In your shoes I would arrange to see your school's SENCO and ask for an educational psychology assessment. From your description, I would think your son's behaviour is likely to continue to get worse if he can't access the curriculum. Whether or not he has a specific learning difficulty, a processing difficulty, ADHD or something else, a good EP should be able to get to the bottom of it. He could be cognitively very able but still have a specific learning disability. The problem is, getting a good assessment is not always easy. But do not leave it until Yr 6!! Start the ball rolling now, because there are always waiting lists. I would write down everything that you are worrying about with regard to his learning, with a list of interventions that have already been tried, and send that to the SENCO when you ask for your meeting. If you have a feeling that he may be neurodivergent, mention that too. What may not be obvious when they are younger, can be come much more significant when they move to secondary. Don't let anyone fob you off!

I wouldn’t punish at home at all. The better he feels about himself the easier it is to do well. I would ask about some screening and go privately if need be. Handwriting doesn’t matter so if it’s a problem why can’t he work on a lap top and have access to printed instructions which also helps his focus? I would suspect adhd and some spikey profile that means he is struggling. Focus on raising esteem, out of school activities and keep up the good communication you have started. Small incentives, clear structures and work and some successes may well bring a big change. It’s a shame the curriculum isn’t more dynamic at KS2 and 3.

My worry is that as he hasn’t been seen as a ‘concern’ before that he won’t meet their threshold for needing SEN interventions.
He has extra maths booster sessions but that’s it (so far). Last year he was still meeting expectations’ and he probably still is in that group (just). But I think the wheels will eventually come off as the work gets harder. Until that happens I don’t think the Senco will be that interested. Of course I’m not just going to sit around and wait for that but I expect I’ll have to self refer for an EP assessment

You may have to consider a SAR (subject access request) to the school to get the evidence for an ECHNA request. It can be surprising how much evidence there is once it's gathered together.

I think you will struggle to get an educational psychologist privately. There's a big shortage. You should press school to refer him first. Find out if they have access to one and what criteria they apply to refer.

I would also save my money as this SEN business is sadly expensive!

Some kids just don't like school much. I'm sure it's worth talking to him. One of mine wrote nothing in a lesson so I asked why, they said I was thinking, then it was too late. See if he needs more sleep, more activity. Something to look forward to after school.

It's interesting that he gets 1/3 through the year each time. My ADHD/ASD child is similar: she needs to build up a relationship with the teacher before she can learn from them. Helps obviously that they know what the issue is.

It's not in schools' interest to see anyone as a concern tbh.

You have to be That Parent if you want any action.

I often find that year 3 is when issues arise and parents are shocked in the difference between year 1 and 2 attainment.
The jump in learning and curriculum is huge and more often than not, those in key stage 1 with SEN bubbling under the surface have more adults with them. Then there is moderation so it’s not in year 2’s best interest to allude to problems which might affect data.
Having him seated by the teacher might work well but he has got to realise that this behaviour is not on. Explore an assessment if you can. Good luck.

Yes this is very true! It’s like it takes a while for him to trust them enough to ask for help and engage with them. He ended up loving his teacher last year but she was really nurturing and knew him well.

What’s an EHCNA? If the school referred him to an EP (I don’t think they will) won’t that take years to happen? This is all so new to me I’m unsure of processes and timelines