What is with childless people parking in family spots!!!

[Asher09]

I have a toddler and a baby - so thats 2 car seats and a double pram. I genuinly need a fair bit of space when parking and recently I've seen so many people without children parking in the family spots - its so frustrating!

Surely family spots are there for a reason - they're closer to entrances and allow more space to get in and out. Its so helpful to a parent!
When inconsiderate people park there without thinking it leaves me driving around with a screaming toddler and a crying baby trying to find a decent spot where I have some room - some car parks have such narrow spots its impossible to get my kids in and out without hitting a car.

I've caught some people in the act, and have confonted them 'Hey I think you've left your kids in the car' but no one thinks they sre doing anything wrong or should move.

I think family spots should have the same rules as disabled spots. Just don't know how that would be implimented.

Yep this 👆

I agree with everything you said about the rights of disabled people. I agree that their rights are crucial, hard-won and often insufficient.

If there is a case where disabled people are competing for limited space with parents (eg on a bus), of course disabled people should have those spaces.

But OP wasn’t talking about any sort of situation where p&c spaces take away from disabled people. She was using a comparison with the way spaces are (or should be) regulated.

If p&c spaces were regulated (as some posters have said they actually are in their area) then that would a) make things easier for parents and b) have no impact on disabled people.

Clearly it’s a fairly unworkable idea though. The bb scheme is very (rightly) tightly controlled. I can’t actually see how you could have a similar badge scheme for parents really.

But that’s not really the point. OP made a passing comparison alluding to the way spaces are regulated according to who they’re for. She didn’t put forward a detailed proposal for enforcement.

Anyone who read that with an ounce of critical thinking will have (I hope) assumed that OP was working on the assumption that a) disabled spaces remain unaffected and b) disabled people would of course be welcome to the p&c spaces as now.

Some posters, it seems, were ready to pounce just because of this completely undeveloped comparison. To me, that smacks of posters looking for a reason to pile on.

It also offered a nice excuse for those who just can’t wait to have a go at mothers. There are some who scorn any and all measures put in place to help mothers. This scorn comes from a bad place. And that place is called misogyny.

I don't understand people who argue "they're just a courtesy", "not the same as "disabled spaces" "in my day they didn't exist and I coped fine with my 13 children " etc etc. Seems to come from uncaring people I general, child haters or bitter people. The argument isn't about disabled spaces, separate issue entirely. They are there for a reason, it is difficult to get in and out safely in a normal parking spot and people who use them without children are lazy entitled ignorant pricks.

I criticised the OP's post, I'm a mum. There is an enormous sense of entitlement around P&C spaces that really isn't warranted. You drive onto a car park and there are no P&C spaces so you need to find another one, or another supermarket.

Ranting about other people in the P&C spaces is pointless, they are not regulated and even the notices put up are a sop, no supermarket will prosecute misuse of P&C spaces because it would alienate their customer base. Parking in the blue badge spaces though will legitimately get you a fine and good enough.

All spaces should be made bigger to take account of car sizes now and help with getting out of them more safe. P&C spaces should be converted to BB spaces because they are in the front of store and really don't need to be. Parents with children need bigger spaces which are safer, supermarkets should focus on that and remove the temptation for abusing them by giving them to BB users.

The level of negative comments here is crazy to me! I also think people have literally dived on and misconstrued your comparison to disabled spots; I took it as you referring to how they are managed, not a comparison of ‘need/priority’. I have twins so NEED a wide spot, I point blank refuse to have my child in the pram stuck at the end of the car out of reach, potentially in the way of cars, whilst I get the 2nd one out. Especially just to then walk past lazy childless people parked up in the P&C spots. Beyond frustrating.

@HoppingPavlova are you OK in the head?

"there is an enormous sense of entitlement around P&C spaces that really isn't warranted. You drive onto a car park and there are no P&C spaces so you need to find another one, or another supermarket."

Honestly WTF does this even mean? How is it entitled to expect the group that the spaces are actually put there for to be able to use them? Literally not 1 poster that I've seen has said that disabled people shouldn't be able to use them but that people who dont NEED them shouldn't. And if they do use them (against the rules of the supermarket/ shopping centre whatever, then they should get a fine. I realise that would be difficult to enforce but it doesn't mean that in an ideal world it shouldn't be.
In fact using the word "entitled" here as some sort of insult is actually ridiculous since they are literally entitled to use them because that is who the spaces are meant for.

It is, Gonewiththetwins but we have a choice of 'take it or leave it' or shop online. I know how difficult it can be navigating toddlers out of the car, many women have experience of this.

The P&C spots are a flashpoint of annoyance from nearly everybody as they're used/misused and that's all there is to it really.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

I criticised the OP's post, I'm a mum. There is an enormous sense of entitlement around P&C spaces that really isn't warranted. You drive onto a car park and there are no P&C spaces so you need to find another one, or another supermarket.

What do you interpret as ‘entitlement’? Is it parents feeling ‘entitled’ to use the spaces that have been designated for them?

If they’re all full - fair enough. That’s life. When that happened to me I would just find another space.

But I reserve the right to feel miffed if half of them are taken by clowns without kids. I think that’s what OP meant.

Daisysrblu, I said, what if the P&C spaces are all taken up? What then? Nice to have but if they're not free, they're not free are they?

Entitled doesn't always mean what you think it does either.

Another vote for them being at the back. A safe walkway would also be good.

Or how about we just make all spaces big enough for you to be able to actually open the door of your car without squeezing out, and size them for modern big cars.

Those saying that they used to manage, cars have got much bigger and car seat laws have changed drastically.

I think it’s you who doesn’t understand the original meaning of ‘entitled’ to be honest.

If the spaces are legitimately full - no problem. If they’re full of people who aren’t entitled to them, it’s kind of annoying. That’s all.

GreenAppleCrumble, there is a sense of entitlement from users of both P&C spaces and also BB users but only the BB users are actually entitled to use their spaces - and they can legitimately use the P&C ones also as well as any other that they might want to use.

There is a difference but P&C thread starters always carry on about BB spaces which they really shouldn't do - no comparison and it's annoying. I have zero sympathy for parents that reference BB spaces when they talk about P&C.

P&C spaces are great, a boon, totally get it but the continual annoyance that they're used by other people (who you actually don't know the circumstances of), is a regular refrain here.

I've wrangled grizzly, wriggly toddlers out of the car many times and, if the P&C spaces aren't available I use the spaces farthest away where I could get them out, put them on reins/in the pushchair in peace without fearing being run over.

I was typing a response to you, GreenAppleCrumble. Must type faster. Or just not bother.

P&C thread starters always carry on about BB spaces

OP made a passing reference. That’s all. So because you don’t like the terms in which she explained her annoyance, you disregard the actual point.

To clarify: parents are entitled to p&c spaces. Disabled people are entitled to bb spaces and p&c spaces.

So you make some sensible arguments and then make offensive remarks at the end. Elderly and disabled people CAN use them and they are NOT lazy pricks.

The rest of us who oppose P&C spaces are not ignorant. People used to queue up for the P&C spaces when ds was small so I used to park elsewhere because I didn't want to wait. It was never an issue - just required me to walk a bit further.

It's not for the rest of the world to make allowances for chosen lifestyle decisions.

I do know that occasionally someone decides to park right next to someone in a completely/partly empty car park. But probably not on both sides, so you can still get in.

To clarify: parents are entitledto p&c spaces. Disabled peopleare entitledto bb spaces and p&c spaces

It should be parents of under 5s or of disabled children. Not drivers of SUVs who happen to have an under 18 in the car.

They probably park thinking they'll get out and have a lovely time then their kid meltsdown and so one parent just "nips out quickly"

Yes - agreed.

It is not the same entitlement, however you choose to interpret it.

"I do know that occasionally someone decides to park right next to someone in a completely/partly empty car park. But probably not on both sides, so you can still get in"

Nope
Happened to me when my twins were little. I could not get them in on either side of the car. And no I didn't have their car seats in the buggy. We had to wait 20 or so minutes for a traffic warden to come.along so I could ask her to stand with the buggy while I pulled out of the space to get them in because I wasn't going to leave 2 11 month (or thereabouts I can't remember exactly how old) babies alone in a buggy, while I got back in the car, shut the door and started to pull away. What do you think they'd have thought I was doing? I'm going to guess they'd have thought i was abandoning them right there.
There were no p and c spaces in that carpark.

Just because disabled people need the bigger spaces more than parents doesn't mean that parents don't need them more than the general population. That's why these spaces exist.

It's like saying you shouldnt go to hospital and get your broken finger sorted out because other people might have a broken back.

Bottom line is, if you went into Tesco as a parent of a toddler and said ‘Am I entitled to use this p&c space’ they would say yes. They would say ‘no’ to the able-bodied non-parent. And possibly fine them.

This is the boundary OP wants to defend.

It’s entirely reasonable. But it’s brought out all the ‘not in my days’ and the closet misogynists. That’s why I will defend OP - because that toxic pile-on was not nice to watch.

Perhaps it would be better to have no p&c spaces 🤷‍♀️but since we do have them, can’t mothers, you know, have them instead of budging up for everyone else (not including disabled people)?

I'm disabled and parent to a (almost) toddler. I absoultely believe that there is a need for P&C parking spaces. Just because 'in their day' there wasn't P&C doesn't mean that is a good thing. Cars are enormous now and it isn't safe for parents to try and wrangle children out of busy carparks with cars parked cheek by jowl. It's safer to have bigger P&C spaces.

Non disabled people without young children who park in those spaces are imo selfish pricks.

Well put