To be absolutely sick of the ‘natural menopause is good’ narrative!

[Lightsideofthemoon]

This article was all over the media yeaterday:
https://unherd.com/2024/03/has-hrt-propaganda-misled-women/

It makes me so angry! Why is it that suddenly seeking treatment for symptoms in menopause being framed like this? In no other area of health is it considered acceptable to not seek treatment if you have debilitating symptoms. It’s utter misogyny.

Its ok for men in mid life to get treatment for their erectile dysfunction but women, ‘battle on through with some yoga and vitamins and stop complaining’

It reminds me a bit of the slightly toxic NCT ‘natural births and breastfeeding’ are the best way making any women who had a medical birth and couldn’t breastfeed an utter failure.

How is this narrative acceptable for women’s Heath? Menopause is absolutely fucking awful for some women - if you sail through with no symptoms, all power to you, but HRT is a lifesaver for many women.

I have recently been to see two male GPs as extremely low and, for the first time at 46 years old, having suicidal thoughts. My EAP counsellor suggested I see my doctor.

First doctor immediately prescribed Citalopram. When I went back to see my own GP a week later and just sat sobbing in the surgery saying something isn’t right, I’m not myself and haven’t been for at least a year and it’s getting worse, but I don’t want to take the antidepressants, he doubled down on my taking the Citalopram because I’m not having hot flushes.

both doctors are over 55 and male and now I’m feeling stitched up.

Lucky that I don't have menopause symptoms. There are health issues (ostroporosis being the big one) associated with early menopause so being on the later side (the average age is suppose to be 51, varying from 45 to 55, so lots of women are still having periods into their 50s) is beneficial. I quite like the boost of energy I get mid cycle as well.

If your think your immunity drops when your hormone levels drop just before your period what makes you think that when your hormone levels drop permanently at the menopause things are going to be better?

@TheReflectingPool sorry you aren’t feeling great. I was 46 when this all started for me with similar feelings and was fobbed off as being too young for menopause. Is there a meno nurse at your practice? They might be able to help 💐

It certainly isn’t balanced now though. As others are pointing out, women’s health issues and ageing are all attributed to ‘peri’ (hate that abbreviation!) to the point where I need to remind myself that men also experience health problems and visible loss of youth so it’s quite clearly illogical to put it all down to the menopause. Suggestions of HRT follow hot on the heels of any mention of symptoms too.

There was a thread the other week about preparing to turn 40 and reading up on HRT, which was a depressing example of the current obsession with this topic.

I really don't understand the attitude. You have a headache you take a painkiller. Why is HRT any different.

That's a selective reading of available viewpoints.

I get the 'natural birth' narrative can be pushed; but there's plenty of writing & research on the importance of safe, healthy delivery of mum & baby.

It's certainly not universal.

I have felt a lot of pressure to have HRT (otherwise I will die young from a heart attack with brittle bones) but don’t feel like I need it. It has been incredibly difficult to find balanced information and my suspicion is that no-one actually knows which is best for an individual. HRT does have down sides but a lot of the pro information for it completely disregards those. I have no idea which would be safer for me as the evidence isn’t there.

Anyway my symptoms currently are hot flushes, a strong feeling of no longer tolerating bullshit & a desire to go out and experience the world. So for the moment I am choosing to not have HRT. I am exercising to protect my bones (I am aware HRT would help that - but it’s not risk free), changing my diet and trying to improve sleep hygiene.

If I developed mental health issues I would look at HRT but at the moment I feel normal (better tbh) other than I seem to have lost my fear in places where I would have been fearful before (eg riding a scary whizzy new horse - used to be terrified, now I’m not scared at all - that may be life events rather than menopause though).

I realised in the last few months I’m actually enjoying who I am becoming in the menopause. I feel like the real me is emerging. I know my values now and I am not scared to embrace them. I make decisions that I would have been socialised out of doing in the past (& these are decisions that have strongly benefitted others who are vulnerable - they’re not bad decisions). I have time to be me now after years of mothering and caring for a severely disabled child (who I still care for, but with a team of people).

I now need to read Germaine Greer The Change as she I believe says yah boo sucks to HRT. I have read bits of Davina as well (& that’s pretty much the issue with HRT - opinions are two extremes).

I have no issue with HRT & know what be the symptoms that would lead me to take it. I just don’t have those symptoms but I do experience negativity when I say I am not taking it - and I do not believe it should be seen as abnormal not to have it.

Well, you might not. Some people will prefer to drink water, rest,get fresh air - which might work for them.

It's all to do with the symptoms & the severity.

No medication is free from side-effects, and good GPs will consider several options.

@Lightsideofthemoon

Are you going to elaborate on your vague comments about Kathleen Stock?

There's clearly always more than what we see in the public discourse, but by any measure, the very obvious harassment and intimidation faced by Kathleen Stock, at her institution, which is on record, was appalling.

I hope you weren't one of the awful bullies who harangued her and treated her like
utter crap for having very commonplace,
mainstream views shared by most people?

There was a thread the other week about preparing to turn 40 and reading up on HRT, which was a depressing example of the current obsession with this topic.

Yeah, I saw that one. When I was 40 I had a 4 year old, a 2 year old and DS wasn't even conceived yet. There's a lot of people in their very early 40s talking about the menopause when most of them won't go through the menopause for another 10 years.

@EarringsandLipstick jesus. I think the point here though is the lack of good gps providing a balanced view. I can assure you that rest, a glass of water and some fresh air didn’t stop me feeling suicidal. And actually- i wasn’t sleeping because of my hormones and was getting panic attacks in the middle of the night.

@flippertyjibbets no, I am not an ‘awful bully’ and I can assure you she isn’t a fucking saint.

@JaninaDuszejko my best mate went through menopause at 39. Again, proper education is needed.

100 percent this.
It was horrific, deliberate intimidation by people who hadn't even read her book for the most part and think feminism is about empowering males to use female
spaces and colonise female sport. Fuck that shit.
If you supported the intimidation of Kathleen Stock op,
shame on you.

being deliberately vague because you can't justify your comments about her because
you're a no debater?

🙄

That was to the poster who used the analogy of taking a pill for a headache. I was countering her analogy. Not suggesting fresh air for menopause symptoms.

I'm on HRT. I too had very dark, bleak days & horrendous symptoms.

I'm simply saying I have not seen the narrative you suggest; but I have noticed HRT being touted as a panacea for every rig or other issues not being investgafed, and that's also wrong.

@flippertyjibbets i’m not derailing this thread talking about her. I used her article because it’s a good example of some of the stuff on Unherd but why should I have to justify anything. The whole thing was an absolute nightmare at work for a lot of people who work there - toxic in the extreme and hugely stressful and like many people who work there - it’s a decent place with decent people who are tired of it all.

you derailed your own thread.

The problem is, just like not all headaches need painkillers, not all menopause symptoms need HRT.

So for me.
Would I take painkillers for a bit of a tension headache - no I'd have a glass of water and a bit of fresh air, maybe a snooze.
Would I take painkillers for a sinus headache, a hormone headache or a migraine - absolutely.

Do I take HRT for my hot flushes, aches and pains and forgetfulness - no.
Would I take HRT if I had debilitating physical symptoms and depression- yes.

You know if you are going to throw out vague assertions, about someone who has definitely been horrendously treated (it's on record), then back them up.

As those of us who work in universities like to do.

HRT was off the table for me due to high incidence of female cancers (breast / ovarian) in my close family.

My personal approach to health is that a holistic approach should be taken. Some women suffer terribly with menopause, some don't but there seems to be a bit of a narrative that women are rocking up to GPS to ask for a magic bullet for every little thing when I don't think it's true.

Every individual is pretty much physiologically unique yet a wholesale approach seems to be taken with women because "hormones".

Medical advances keep happening and we are more and more informed about how to "take responsibility" for our health so we can function optimally largely to ensure we meet our responsibilities not necessarily for our own well-being, so I agree with the OP that it's frustrating that something that has helped countless women is being questioned in this manner.

Early menopause runs in my family. When I was in my mid 30s I started getting all the weirdness of what I now know is peri-menopause. Bizarrely it started with generalised foot pain, then other aches and pains, then extra scattiness. I don't often go to the doctors but checked it out and was given a "diagnosis" of fibromyalgia and a disinterested shrug. At that appointment I was asked what was going on in my life which admittedly was stressful and I was then offered antidepressants. Which I declined.

In my early 40s when the night sweats turned into day monsoons, my new partner insisted I went to the GP again. By then I'd had the skinny from my Mum and knew what it was. But to reassure him off I trotted. The GP was dismissive. Despite telling him my family pattern, he said I was too young. I pressed for the blood test - I couldn't help but be a little "told you so" when the numbers confirmed i was deep in the process. I crashed through and was done and dusted by 50. It wasn't fun. If I could have taken HRT I would have.

I suppose the rambly point I'm trying to make is that women's health is still overly conflated with their emotions. This kind of article may have some merit but I get where the OP is coming from in that there is a subtle implication that when women are feeling crap and ask for help, it's some sort of moral failing or attention seeking. If HRT hadn't been "invented" we'd all be struggling through - but it has so if it helps and is suitable for the women who need it, why turn it into an issue?

It's part of the health paradox - one should be alert for anomalous symptoms to catch nasties like cancer quickly, but chances are your GP will roll their eyes because you've been googling too much.

Which is ironic, as my late Mum went two years dicking about with the Fodmap diet with symptoms indicating ovarian cancer. In the end her GP decided to try her on HRT (in her 70s) to help her tiredness. The required blood test showed up her Stage 4 cancer. So I'm pretty jaded about attitudes to women's health overall to be fair.

And I have said early onset menopause has health issues associated with it and should be treated appropriately which in most cases would require HRT.

The average age of menopause is 51 with a range of 45-55.

'Tired of it all'?

What's 'it all'?

I work in a university. I agree the internal dynamics aren't always clear to the wider world.

But by their own admission what Sussex did to Kathleen Stock fell far short of acceptable treatment of an employee, at its most basic.

It's shocking you can even indirectly support that.

Everyone is different. The analogy of the headache is if you have symptoms for anything that can be treated then help should be offered.

People's (women's) symptoms shouldn't be dismissed - it's a terrible place to be in regardless of the condition.