'Middle class earners' - struggling to cope financially and can no longer afford comfortable living standards despite having household incomes of between £60,000 and £120,000- Guardian

[fluffykittens208]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/04/middle-class-workers-mortgages-bills-tax

Excerpts:

'Scott was just one of scores of middle-class earners who shared with the Guardian how they are struggling to cope financially and can no longer afford comfortable living standards despite having household incomes of between £60,000 and £120,000.
A report last month from the abrdn Financial Fairness Trust highlighted how Britain’s insecure jobs market and high housing costs are leading to the growth of a precarious middle class. These households are struggling to maintain a decent living standard on joint incomes as high as £60,000 a year. That compares with the median gross annual earnings for full-time employees of £34,963 last April.'

“It does seem that the only way to be on a middle income and doing OK at the moment is to be a Dink and living in the north.”

'Although respondents with children reported more precarious finances than those without, millennial childless couples say they barely have any disposable income either.'

Personally we am coping ok with a household income of £120k and still eat out/have a lot of city breaks, but I wonder if that is only because of our specific circumstances

1. small 2 bed flat in zone 3 London so we don't have a car and where it is possible for DH to cycle to work. Would probably always stay in a flat even if income doubles so it makes more sense to stay in zone 3 if living in a flat.
2. were able to live at DH's mum for 3 years while working in London and bought in 2019. We were able to overpay a mortgage on 2% interest during the pandemic and plough our pandemic savings into it which means the new mortgage rate isn't as painful.
3. fertility problems so we are still DINKY and unlikely to have more than 1 child (am already 32 this year).

As a disclaimer i don't think the chancellor should cut taxes despite us all feeling the cost of living crisis as 40% of tax revenue comes from NI and income taxes so if they cut taxes, they would have to cut services and I have no desire to pay for healthcare privately in my old age.

But it feels very strange to read about people struggling in the news on our household income, probably means that the income threshold to be 'comfortable' (without very specific circumstances that lower your cost of livin) is much higher! Would hazard around £150k to £250k now. Basically we are going to be a hugely unequal society where only the top 5% can expect all the middle class fixtures and the rest of us have to pick and choose or live a life of penury and no luxuries i.e. car or property in expensive location; 2 children and no savings or 1 child and savings. Far luckier than those in the bottom 50% obviously but i am not sure how you can say you are middle class when the only reason you can afford to eat out and have nice holidays is cos you purposefully cut back on things people used to expect if you were doing semi well i.e. 2 kids in a suburban semi and a car on the driveway.

I read that thread too.🤣
mmmm🤨

For a start they don't own it if paying a mortgage but also who would you like to own these properties, would you like the very wealthy to own them, to build up their property portfolios, then we can all pay rent and you would consider that fair, an egalitarian system even? People wanting to own 'a' property should not be who you aim your disgust at! How long have you been on MN, is it longer than a few months I e the build up to tbe next GE because I really find it bewildering that you are surprised that middle class people post on MN!

Boarding school is upper class, yes. Independent I disagree.

See I'm always reminded off how in the 80s I think it was Malcom Rifkind told folk in the north that if they can't find a job to "get on their bike and find a job " .
I suppose the same could be said about down south , it just over heated and most well paid jobs went to the south , maybe folk need to think now , that they should move north .

Exactly! Cannot believe how self absorbed people can be and tone deaf!

It was Norman Tebbitt who talked about “getting on yer bike”.

I went to private school until I was 12, I don't recall stating the reasons I left or that I was scarred for life, I went to a huge London comprehensive following that which was certainly challenging.

I literally stayed that on the thread you are referencing not exactly a secret.

That's definitely a different slant than you have portrayed on the private school threads

She also gets all adult education courses I would like to do but can’t due to cost, for free.
@Bunnyasmyname
UC doesn’t automatically entitle you to a free course. But level of education does. So depending on what you wanted to do it could still be funded.

It’s not either or though, is it?

If things are hard for people on high incomes then they are sure as hell gonna be harder for people on low incomes.

It’s not tone deaf to point this out. It’s actually important - as others on the thread have pointed out, traditionally the Tories have been all about supporting the middle classes. If it’s reached a point where even they are screwed over then we know the country is in a total mess.

In what way exactly? I had to leave private school at 12, I said on the private school thread about the school being like Grange Hill. I think you are obsessed with my name, even on the private school thread you referenced me again about another thread. You seem intent on following me about to disagree with me and spout your right wing crap!

Have been on MN for a few years ,paying a mortgage is very different than paying rent…thought you would understand that ie property generally worth more when you sell it !
Have no problems with MC because we most definitely are but it doesn’t give MC a green light to be so tone deaf . It’s not a case that people who want to own a property a problem but for many people it is completely out of their reach …hence the original post ! Just a bit of humility shows empathy of how other people struggle 🤷‍♀️

Lol as a lifelong Labour/Green voter I'm hardly right wing.
No energy to stalk anyone just scrolling through this thread.
I referenced one single other thread where we had had a discussion and now I'm a stalker 😄

How big is your flat. I guess it fits a family of 4 and your nanny is live out? Sorry to hijack the thread.

I am trying to determine the bare minimum i need to decide where should i live and what I need to live comfortably as I don't want to overstretch.

Yes it’s about different choices people make.
Cars v holidays v house etc

Anyone can see themselves as struggling financially if they make financial commitments to their limits. High mortgage, car on lease, what they deem to be essential pricey phone contracts, cleaner, gym, sky tv etc can easily take your direct debits to a huge sum and leaving you struggling to buy food.
I deem myself to be comfortable, joint income of 45k. Live in herts, 2 kids. But we are comfortable cuz we live in our means and don’t make commitments to pay these monthly things

@donteatthedaisies0

I see your point, if you can't afford to live down south then leave and find somewhere cheaper and stop complaining...... and I'm sure plenty of people will have to do that.

But you can understand how people earning what on paper looks like a decent amount of money find themselves baffled that they can't afford to live and work and bring up 2 children.

Uprooting your family from the place you've lived all your life to somewhere you know nobody, have no support network, maybe one or both of you might need to find new jobs...... it's not easy.

So many people seem to think that an income of £120k means a ridiculously high take-home pay. Factor in how much is given away in tax …. Income is halved. It’s a healthy income but it’s not like a lottery win once tax, mortgage, childcare, food and other costs are paid down South.
I’d love to move back up north, but with schools, friends, jobs etc…. Not quite that easy to just up sticks and move.

No, on that thread you wrote about my posts in the past and my user name was familiar. On the Vat for private schools thread you are offended as you send you DC to private school, quelle surprise you don't agree with me so now you are on this thread, making personal attacks again. I'm not on this thread about private schools, I take issue with if you are a born and bred Londoner that this doesn't count as it is a playground for the rich now. I was pointing out that it hasn't always been that way and middle class people did live there, without help from inheritance. London comprehensives were like Grange Hill in many parts of London, I know because I went to one! On the private school thread this was brought up by me and I was belittled and mocked about it, I can quote if you like.

If everybody leaves from London and moves somewhere cheaper - you will have both price rises everywhere else and nobody to pay for the overinflated state (and your benefits). I for one am sick to the back teeth of my life suffering to pay for ungrateful people's benefits, and I know for a fact that I am not the only one.

Our 2 bedroom ground floor flat is £2400 a month. That’s why people feel poor.

That £2k probably includes their housing costs, or significant health issues for someone in the household.

A couple with 2 kids would be entitled to a max of £1553.46, excluding housing costs and any ill health/disability elements. A third child would increase that by just under £270 a month, but only if the youngest was over 7 (2 child maximum applies to children born since April 2017).

You’re definitely not the only one 💐 it sucks.

No, sorry, 'school fees' is not 'struggling'.

Paying for private school is a luxury. A person who has chosen to do that doesn't get to say that they're struggling - they made a choice to splash out on something.

I do see there's an exception if you have a child who genuinely cannot cope in state schooling - which does happen. But it's rare - and even then, it is still quite a privilege to be able to pay your way out of state schooling.