Jury duty expenses - crippling!

[Budapest99]

Hi there,
Ive been called up for Jury Duty which Im super excited about & really want to do it. However on completing the forms, Ive realised the court will pay a max of £65 per day for loss of earnings & childcare costs combined. My company will deduct the £65 per day from my salary leaving me no money for childcare. I have 2 kids at nursery costing £70 each Mon & Tues so I will need to add Wed to Fri as extra, costing me £840!!!! (£70 per kid for 6 extra days). I would have thought I would be paid the £65 reimbursable for loss of earnings & EXTRA money for childcare. I will need to try & excuse myself as I cannot afford it. What do you think? x

My DH did JS recently, he deferred the first one because of pressure of work and no one able to step in, but had to give two dates in the next six months that he could do it. He turned up the first couple of days and did nothing, wasn't needed the next two days and then they said we don't need you any more. It seemed to be pretty easy to defer, but to get out of it completely had very strict rules.

I was told that if I couldn't get childcare, the expectation would be for my husband to take AL, and I could nominate a date within the next 6 months when it would be convenient for him. I appreciate this won't apply to some, and I asked this question around what if parents separated etc. They said expectation still stood unless other parent lives abroad. I'm not saying this is ok, but its the response I got when I challenged them

My husband and I are both HCPs and when we asked to be exempt owing to work commitments, we received an email saying as HCPs, we were permanently exempt. Mine came first so when he was later called up, he asked and was told the same.

we are in Scotland though so not sure if that makes a difference.

Funnily enough I was speaking someone the other day about jury service. She turned up on the first day and was told it would be a long trial at least 4 weeks which coincided with a long haul holiday so the judge excused her. However a woman in much the same position as yourself made a case to be excluded but was refused. It is unfair but it's worth bearing in mind.

I see your point but if you read other threads about people who've been on jury duty, so many have said the people they end up on a jury with are often disinterested, barely listening, don't understand half of the process, and are just there because they have to be to avoid a fine. Which is to be expected because it is an imposition. If I were worried about paying the mortgage and buying food, or who was going to look after my kids all week, I wouldn't be paying attention either. If people were treated fairly, and recompensed to the level of their income in a normal week then maybe they would engage more. Or perhaps people interested in jury duty and who can afford weeks off work without proper pay could register for selection, like a voluntary panel. But it makes me furious that the government goes on about Civic Duty but doesn't feel they have a duty of care not to land people in debt thanks to jury duty. I wonder how sympathetic a court would be if the same faces from a jury suddenly landed in front of them months later for non-payment of rent or council tax and cited the reason for their arrears as extended jury service? Probably not at all.

So your husband would have to use up his annual leave, presumably then precluding him from being able to go on a family holiday with you or do something he already had planned instead? I would be livid

You can apply but you don't get. You jump through rings of fire and end up eligible for very little. You need a ton of evidence from employer which was a nightmare and I basically ended up massively out of pocket. OP if you can excuse yourself I would

I’m wondering why you’re super excited about doing Jury Service? I’ve heard story’s from people who have attended abuse cases which have left them with sleepless nights and they’re not allowed to talk about it with anyone while the case is ongoing, and some can go on for weeks. And if photos are involved they’re in your subconscious forever. Then there’s the other side of things when the case is mind bogglingly boring. I wouldn’t want to do it at all, never mind look forward to it.

Yes, would be interesting for some but unless you have someone who can take the time off to do childminding it’s crazy.

I was asked to do one, over an hours journey in good traffic that finished at 5:30, afterschool finished at 6 strictly no extra - plus drop off breakfast club wasn’t early enough.

good luck, they’re not overly sympathetic.

Sounds like a nightmare.

I was called when I was 18, far too young in my opinion. I was suffering with mental health problems. Was excused and have never been called again.

Probably any health condition will work (although don't fabricate it lol).

Sadly the lawyers in the criminal justice system are paid very very badly. Barristers in commercial fields do very nicely, but in crime they are only paid if a trial goes ahead, so nothing at all if the defendant doesn't turn up, pleads guilty on the day, if there's no court available etc. Even when trials go ahead they regularly receive below minimum wage and there is absolutely no mental health support or sick pay. Suicide rates and alcoholism in the criminal bar are worryingly high. In some parts of the country there are no criminal solicitors below the age of fifty, so in the next decade you can expect no duty solicitor to turn up if you get arrested. It's fairly atrocious and the system is totally on its knees. The secret barrister is good at highlighting this stuff, but I don't think there's much public awareness.

Totally agree jury's shouldn't be out of pocket. It's just another massive failing of the court system. But I do think juries are so important. If you look at magistrates (unpaid volunteers), they convict almost everyone and lack a broader sense of life experience. Most lawyers reckon juries almost always make the right call, but that magistrates are dangerously bad.

You still have to show up every day for 2 weeks only to get not-selected for each day's shirt case/s because of the biases you are telegraphing tho...

Ive received a letter a few days ago telling me I've been called up. I've asked to be excused as it's likely to trigger past trauma for me. I was a victim of a crime and attended the same court only 2 years ago, where I had to sit listening to the perpetrator telling the cruelest lies to evade punishment. Fortunately he was found guilty, but I've no wish to re-live any aspect of my trauma or the court experience in any form

The problem is, OP does work Wednesday and Thursday however she doesn’t use childcare. She will need to claim
loss of earnings as her employer will deduct the £64.95 from her for these two ‘working days’ so OP will have to claim loss of earnings.

She says she does 'just survey work on-line barely anything'. It sounds like the main cost would be childcare which the £65 only half covers. Unless she gets 85% back from UC.

"He was very critical of people who had asked and didn’t entertain any reasons like childcare as a barrier!"

A male judge obviously.

Yes tell them you can't do it, as you would need extra child care at an expense to you. You are stay at home mum part time.

When I did it I claimed the expenses for fuel and Parking and didn’t pay work a penny of it, they paid me my full wage. I believe they have to pay you by law.
you’ll still be out of pocket though because the £50 odd doesn’t even almost cover childcare for 2

My employers absence policy states the same thing. And I work for a big food retailer.

That you’ll get paid for Jury Duty but they’ll deduct the daily rate the court pay, from your wages.

Im assuming that whilst employers deducting the courts daily rate may be fair to the employer, it's all just an inconvenience as the daily court rate won't be paid at the same time as the salary, so direct debits and other outgoings could be messed up that month (should the individual be someone without emergency funds available). Childcare costs don't seem to be considered accurately either.

Can someone tell me what the requirements to be dismissed would be.
The idea of being called up is really worrying. I'm a self employed carer. I have severs really vulnerable clients who it would be very challenging to find and train appropriate cover for. Nor would I be able to afford it as I am single and without savings.
I also am waiting for an ADHD diagnosis and burnout is a really big few for me. I have to pace my days to match my energy.

Would I likely be exempted if I were called up?

Ive personally asked to be dismissed with regards to my mental health (due to past trauma) likely to be triggered from being in that space, additionally I'm not yet aware of what type of case it will be, but considering the court it's in only certain types of cases will be there (again triggering). Im a single parent, one of my two children being SEN, and having a lot of issues with him in school and there is no after school facility in secondary, and I can't leave him home alone (so I have mentioned all of that too). I'm awaiting a response, so I will report back here if I'm successful

Exactly.

Court don’t pay until it’s over.
Meanwhile employer is deducting pay at £65 a day

That means if you’re in court for 10 days you’re out of pocket £650 until the court pay you. Thats a huge chunk of money to be waiting for, for most of us!

The amount they pay is ludicrous and doesn’t reflect current inflation, wages and other costs like childcare. If you’re in a court room for 7+ hours a day, then £65 is under minimum wage

I feel like it would be better for the employer to pay the employee full pay and the employer can then claim the costs back from the court afterwards?

I think it’s completely unfair that people aren’t compensated fully and are essentially forced to attend, at a cost to them, potentially putting them into financial difficulty.

And as PP’s have said, if people are sitting there worrying about their finances, they’re less likely to focus on the actual trial. Not to mention they may even be persuaded to vote with the majority, not because they agree but because they want their JD to be over asap so they’re not financially impacted any further.

The whole system seems unfair and draconian all around.

I’ve never been called up for JD. Neither has my mother, brother or DP. Only my Dad has been called up and he was able to get excused on health grounds.

I did jury service and they did pay £16 a day towards after school club (I ended up having to travel to a court location much further away than was told).

Why do they do this?

I live about a 30 minute walk from a Crown Court, but they insisted on calling me for jury service at one 10 miles away. As it happened, I didn't do it as I got a date for an operation I'd been waiting for for ages, and never got asked again.

That's probably why they put the age limit up to 75 a few years ago.