AIBU that working people should be rewarded in the Budget?

[DistingusedSocialCommentator]

As above by way of increasing the tax threshold which has been on ice for a while.

The lower paid will benefit the most as those earning about 125k I think it is dont get any tax reliefe. 2 of the 3 children of ours pay 40% or more in tax plus NI. Therefore, the lower paid will benefit the most

We left worl in our early 50's and yet to reach state pension age.

I've read that many pensioners will soon be paying taxes as many are also being paid a few quid in private pensions they contributed to

so rather than a penny or two cut, raise the threshold of income tax

The gov must also do away with IHT but that is a different subject.

So if you agree with me, then it is I am being reasonable

Who are “people like these”? The ones willing to pay more tax for decent public services?

I don't think the country can afford any tax decreases at all, for anyone, but IF taxes have to be increased, I think it's time that workers were ring fence protected and taxes increased on those with incomes other than from wages under PAYE, i.e. on pensions, dividends, interest, capital gains, etc - those people who've largely been insulated from the tax rises of the last 2 or 3 decades with have generally hit workers (especially "middle" workers) the hardest. So my vote would be either extend NIC to ALL income or scrap it and increase income tax/capital gains tax rates instead.

We need to stop the disincentives and discouragements of people able to work, and able to work more, and to do that we have to "make work pay", and need a tax/benefits system that means people starting to work, or starting to work longer hours, take promotions, etc., get to keep more of their wages rather than these stupid and damaging cliff edges and stupidly high marginal rates.

Getting more people into work, and more people working, will massively benefit the country far more than a bit of a tax refund for Auntie Mabel on her gold plated public sector pension or Giles the hedgefund manager! Not only does more people working and earning more circulate more money throughout the economy, it also helps fill all the areas where staff shortages are causing real problems.

I think it's aimed more at people who want "someone else" to pay more tax, never themselves!!

Small businesses employ 4.35 million workers. Out of the total 32.86 million workers in the U.K. , as of the second quarter of 2023, there were approximately 27 million people working in the private sector of the United Kingdom, which was around 82.1 percent of the UK workforce.

4.35 million out of 27 million privately employed workers is 16%, not 61%.

Small businesses are usually exempted from a lot of regulations that drive up the costs of doing business. A small business has an annual turnover between £2m and £10m per year.

Perhaps there should be a progressive tax system for businesses instead of the flat rate taxes we do have? So small businesses pay lower taxes than medium or large businesses?

I doubt very much a small business would decide to “employ no one” because of a 1p on the £ increase in tax.

You’re wrong about IHT. I’m a homeowner, my parents are homeowners and as an only child I’d benefit significantly from inheriting their house but personally I’m in favour of a 100% inheritance tax. Inherited wealth is one of the biggest drivers of inequality. It should all go back into creating affordable social housing stock that’s accessible to everyone, so nobody needs to rely on inheritance to have a secure home. I wouldn’t trust the current government not to misuse it but theoretically I’d absolutely choose the betterment of society for people worse off than me over a personal windfall. I’ll probably be leaving all my assets to charity.

There is a really really simple way to 'make work pay' tax income less and tax unearned capital and assets more.
However, no one wealthy asset holders seems that keen on taxing assets and capital least of all you OP (inheritance tax would do just that). There were several years (albeit a while ago now) where my property out earned me. That's some kind of crazy. And if I'd sold....no tax on what it had earned, not a penny. Of course it's only available if I cash it in (and I need somewhere to live). But if I'd been someone from a family with assets I might have bought a second property and if that had earned loads I still wouldn't have been taxed any where near what I was being taxed on my income. Same with other assets. So lucky people who have had access to capital have hugely increased their wealth and assets in the last 15 years and have paid minimal tax on all those lovely earnings....

Govt official statistics confirm 61% is the correct figure!

• "total employment in SMEs increased from 16.4 million at the start of 2022 to 16.7 million at the start of 2023, an increase of 1.7%"

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/business-population-estimates-2023/business-population-estimates-for-the-uk-and-regions-2023-statistical-release

I agree.

We also need to tackle the black economy, i.e. undeclared earnings, business doing "vat free for cash", sale of duty free booze and fags, profits from drug dealing and prostitution, as well as benefit fraud which often goes hand in hand with black economy earnings.

I'd quite like to see family carers acknowledged in the budget, as having given up a decently paying job to be one, 24/7, well under £100 pw doesn't really cut it. I get my Class A NI contributions paid but had my years in a long time ago without them.

We are OK, we manage but there are many in this situation who are really struggling.

I was going to write a long response, then I saw who the OP was. Now I’m not going to bother.

You are wrong. The only people I've met and it was always via work - they were for IHT, massive tax raids on 2nd homes, and even higher taxes for those that earned a decent amount.

Like I said earlier and I'm standing by it, often the IHT supporters are those that have vey little to their name

Millions can't be wrong and dot forget mate. Labour taxed people to the hilt and those with a few pennies to their names soon started leaving England

“We need to stop the disincentives and discouragements of people able to work, and able to work more, and to do that we have to "make work pay", and need a tax/benefits system that means people starting to work, or starting to work longer hours, take promotions, etc., get to keep more of their wages rather than these stupid and damaging cliff edges and stupidly high marginal rates.

Getting more people into work, and more people working, will massively benefit the country…”

I really don’t think that 3% unemployed rate, as in if we magically find an extra 1.2 million jobs for them all will be enough to turn the economy and country round. It’s not like the unemployed are usually hedge fund managers on £2m a year and paying £250k/yr in tax. The lack of PAYE tax from 1.2m unemployed is what? A loss of tax revenue of around £4.2m in income tax per year? (Assuming generously that each unemployed worker gets a £30k/yr job)

It’s a drop. Our government spent twice that swapping pictures of the late queen for good old King Charlie.

I agree with you.
The gov needs to check those on disability benefits are rightfully claiming them as you will know some play the system.

Then pay the informal carers like you for the hours you spend helping and the hours would be agreed via an assessment as is for formal/paid carers.

Ah there is your error, SMEs stands for ‘small and medium sized enterprises’ you have done your calculation for “small businesses employ 61%” using SME numbers which include medium sized businesses.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/936843/employment-by-smes-in-uk/

Not read the full thread but wasn't it in the conservative manifesto that they would raised the income tax threshold to the equivalent of 37.5hrs on minimum wage as no one on minimum wage should be paying tax...... distinctly recall that promise that, like all the other manifesto promises, has just been silently scrapped.

It's not just the official "unemployed" who aren't working, or not working as much as they could! Though, it would help if there were fewer unemployed people claiming benefits rather than contributing!

What about the official much higher number of "economically inactive"??

It's more about people who've retired early, but could still work, or work part time but could work more hours, or in basic/low paid jobs who could take better jobs/promotions, etc. They need to be incentivised to actually work!

Thank you, I've mentioned small business, cash in had for workers and the owner etc. Yes, the very rick and big orgs cheat us the taxpapyers out of billions. Us that are PAYe or were and now Self asseemnt hcant play the sytem as pensions etc are already known to the taxman - if you rent out a property, we do via LA and 100% honest with the figures but some LL do cash in hand etc

The undeclared earning the mass of it needs to stop

I never thought I'd say this as I was a cash person on the whole come spending unless larger items. Covid showed us that England is ready to go cashless - in one sweep the undeclared economy will almost be a thing of the past. Yes, those that cant get bank card or cc's - they government could easily give these people cards like top up cards and also every corner shop has now the capacity to be cashless.

Back to the main point of my OP. I am in favour in the increase of the tax-free threshold and those on lower earnings will benefit the most.

You are right. Sadly, as I've said many times, all of them, inc Labour will say anyhting to stay in office or move into office. Once in there - they is very little difference by way of trying to make people happy to get votes even if it means bankrupting England

Have people never sat back and thought about how many Labour MP'ss are worth in excess of 600, 000 pounds?

Any Labour supporters here that feel we'd be better off with Labour? Please also tell me how many millions your leader is worth and some of his top MP's - so much so for being aware the price of a big Mac.

So you’ve met a handful of people and think they’re the only people on the planet in favour of inheritance tax? That’s not how polling works. These - including my beliefs - are opinions, not facts. In fact if you look at recent polling the majority that is against inheritance tax is slimmer than you seem to think - between 53-60%, depending on which research you look at.

Have people never sat back and thought about how many Labour MP'ss are worth in excess of 600, 000 pounds?

Which Labour - or any - MP is on £600k? That’s more than three times the PM’s salary.

Hello, @DistingusedSocialCommentator . How nice to see you again, spreading your usual joy.

We are not more than ok as you said. We are still careful, ie sont eat out as dont like it and only eat out when on hols or in hotels for weddings etc. I've never travelled business class let alone first class, nor do we stay in 5 star hotels - as our incomes have been massively reduced since we left work and with hyper inflation, we are careful

So you can afford to go on holidays and stay in hotels for weddings. You can afford to fly. That means you're more than OK in a country where many people don't know where their next rent payment is coming from without them going into their overdraft. Check your privilege.

And millions absolutely can be wrong. Millions being wrong has contributed to the current state of the UK.

Economically inactive are not unemployed. They are students, retired, disabled, volunteers, unpaid carers. The #1 category are the 18-24 year olds who are students. What should we do there? Ban University? Forget about degree level education for all professions? Do medieval style apprenticeships for doctors and engineers? Or shuttle everyone from age 18 into low paid work and import degree educated immigrants for all the high paying jobs?

Second is largest is the 50-64 age bracket and most are disability retired. They haven’t reached pension age, but they have had to stop work due to poor health. This is the problem with just increasing pension age based on life expectancy and not healthy life expectancy.

Third are the child-rearing age bracket- so go like the USA and ban maternity leave?

What are you on about?
I clearly said as you highlighted in bold, yet you rant about pay.
Money makes money along with prudent spending/saving/investing.
As I said, the Labour captain is not just a millionaire but a multi-millionaire.

Would he support an increase in the tax-free threshold to 15k? It should be a lot more than that if inflation etc was taken into account.

Increasing the tax threshold the zero rate would encourage more people to come off benefits and back into work, IMO and help all on lower wages to avg wages.

I’m not taking economic lessons from someone who can’t even spell their own fucking username.