Does it ever feel enough?

[Pursuinghappy]

you know, you work, you earn, you get pay rises but you always end up wanting more. It’s like each promotion or whatever unlocks a higher level of spending, so you never ever feel truly comfortable and always somehow like you’re failing, never have quite enough money etc? There’s always the next level to achieve, more things you ‘need’ or more experiences you want to have.

anyone else feel like that?

i know, it’s about taking a sec to remind yourself about what you have and how blessed you/ I am/ are. I’m so fortunate for my beautiful children, and nice hone, to afford a car, have a well paid (probably not by MN standards) job. BUT I mean that feeling deep down that it’s not enough? Does anyone else feel that too?

The pandemic put everything into perspective for me.
I was furloughed for such a long time that I re evaluated my life and realised I was wasting so much money.
I did a financial overhaul.
Looked at what was really important for me to spend my money on and then reduced my working hours.
Time is more important to me than money at this stage of my life

So much this! I read something that those who are loyal to one company earn 50% less in their career!

ive started to flip it on recruiters and say quite nicely, i always like to flip this question and ask you what the range you’re willing to pay is- some are more amenable than others lol

I think its a personality type. Those that succeed in life are always going to be a bit less satisfied as it's their nature to always want more. That's the nature of ambition I suppose. My DH is like this and it annoys me. He has reached his peak career wise and now is becoming unsettled about where we live and other aspects of our lives although we are very comfortable.

@Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong

Depends what you mean by succed in life doesn't it.
Does it mean I've failed because I live in a Victorian terrace with no car and going to a caravan in Wales for my summer holiday?

Yes OK we are also going to Copenhagen for 3 days in June

I feel lucky and grateful for what we have. But I do also get that sense of always wanting more.

This is tied up though with wanting to BE better - better at my job, a better wife, a better mother. I want to achieve more in every area of my life because that's my character. I want a promotion because I want to be that bit more skilled, that much higher up etc and the increased money is a reflection of that.

I tend to spend money on services more than things. So pay rises are used to release time elsewhere in my life - a cleaner, sending ironing out, a home car valet once a month etc. So I can spend more quality time with the people I love, and be a better less shouty mum because I'm not so stressed about all my housework etc!!

I sometimes go through phases of wanting a better car or a bigger house etc but it's usually fleeting because I often don't want to part with the cash for stuff like that as I'd rather spend it on other things like experiences for my kids.

I have absolutely no interest in climbing the greasy pole, having a bigger house, better car etc at all. I am comfortable as I am with an excellent work/life balance. Would I work my socks off so I can drive a flashy car? Not a chance. I have always lives very modestly and well within my means, which gives me great peace of mind and time to spend with those I love. This to me is worth more than anything.

I don’t want to put words in that posters mouth but what I think she meant was more ambitious for worldly things rather than successful as such, the want want want of ambition rather than the peace of contentment.

making myself sound terribly materialistic, maybe I am, but another poster said it I want the experiences for my kids, the cleaner so I don’t have to do it so I can spend that time with my kids, the want want want

I'll give a bit of perspective from the other end- I worked in finance and I earned well (over £300k with bonus by the end) but I worked closely with people a lot higher up the scale that were earning what for lots of people would be life changing bonuses every year. And for most of them it was never enough- lifestyle creep and comparing themselves to others meant that very few people ever felt it was enough even at that level. And whatever people's views of finance these were greedy jobs, in that they were very intense, long hours, high pressure. I saw a lot of people nearly killing themselves to earn money they didn't need. And with the frequent rounds of redundancy there was always the fear.

My click was when my boss told me her boss called her when she was on her way to her father's funeral. She answered the call, and he expected her to! That was a massive 'what do I want my life to look like- not like that' moment for me. Then the pandemjc exacerbated that.

I moved to a cheaper area and now work part time in a job I enjoy on about 20% of the money I used to earn. I see my family a lot and have a good balance. But when I see old colleagues a lot of them express envy but they don't seem inclined to do it at all! Almost everyone I know who has stepped out have been women, only one man. Won't lie, I miss the money sometimes and also the buzz- high pressure jobs can be quite addictive! But I feel
I have a better life now.

So it's a long winded way of saying that there isn't a magic number - you might never feel you are there. I've found looking at what do I want in the round- material things and experiences and time and so on- to be better for me. My last observation is that my mum retired on not much more than a state pension but because she owned her home and had low outgoings, she felt well off. Some people will feel happy on 20k, others will still feel broke at £500k!

Whereas my parents afforded fuck all so everything I’ve done feels like a achievement

This is the angle I'm coming from. My dad was a labourer who couldn't read or write. My mum wasn't educated past high school and only worked until I was born, when she was 22. She never worked a day since. We had nothing growing up. I was told uni was only for "rich people". We lived in a very low aspiration area and were a low aspiration family!

I did end up as a single mum (ex was abusive/violent), but I went and got an education, access course then degree, and a semi decent career. I say semi decent as its public sector so not big bucks! But a lot more than I ever thought I would earn. I did also move away from my home town which made a big difference.

I have a really good life. The DC are adults now and have done well. I have a nice home, I travel, I have a great work/life balance. If I want something (within reason) I can buy it. Yes a few more £s in the bank would be nice but I don't "need" it.

At a time when people are really struggling, having to use food banks and not being able to heat their homes. I count my blessings. A few of my family members rely on UC to top up their wages so its not a world I'm unfamiliar with. I'm just thankful I don't have to rely on things like that any more.

I dont feel that way. I've always put my salary bumps into overpaying the mortgage so I've not levelled up with the bigger house and car.

I like to make things. While that can be expensive I think it gives me a sense if achievement and occupies my thoughts. I also read a lot of books so I dont see a lot of advertising so I dont really want anything more.

Do you need something to focus on? A project? Buying stuff is usually not about the thing but the experience. Feeling like you should "treat yourself", "invest in the best", have an "experience", buying an image of yourself, nice car, looking respectable etc. Its marketing.

Recognising that takes away a lot of the power.

See from that, I just wonder ‘what job in finance?’ im in finance too, 1/3 that salary would be nice

For me, it’s the experiences, the holidays etc more so than the possessions, although some nice things would be nice.

I don’t feel that way at all. I have a decent salary, a low mortgage and an ever again car. I plan for holidays etc and am content with whatever I can afford in the budget.

I grew up with absolutely nothing, and have worked hard to get to where I am now - I was probably more driven when I was younger but now, in my 50s I’m happy to financially secure with a fairly average lifestyle, no private school, massive house (with massive debts), expensive hobbies. I think the “more, more, more” mindset is harmful to our mental health not to mention the environment and I’m happy to opt out.

See from that, I just wonder ‘what job in finance?’ im in finance too, 1/3 that salary would be nice

You think that, but then look at all the people who teach that and then complain about the marginal tax rate, lack of child benefit etc etc. Some folk are literally never satisfied, always comparing with others, always looking at what they don’t have. It’s no way to live your life.

Tbh that’s probably me

Yeah I agree with @Jellycatspyjamas - most of the people I knew earning that were never satisfied or felt wealthy! That was my point.

But if you work in finance can you look at moving to the better paid areas? Asset and wealth management, as well as investment banking were some of the better paid areas when I was there

Im what you would call dirt poor by MN standards.
But i dont feel like it i am grateful for everything i have.
Im happy everyday.
I had my child young and worked up from nothing now im comfortable and can relax abit. Ive never wanted more and more happy with where i am im childfree now and do as i please.

I understand completely and feel exactly the same. I own my own home, no kids, a decent job with a salary I never dreamt of earning 10yrs ago, or even 5 yrs ago. Enough cash to not be penny pinching. But it's never enough, it's never good enough.

I don't need to earn more money, I don't need to buy more things and I don't need more holidays than I already have. Yet I want it. Crave it. To the point I am jealous hearing other people 'make it' because I don't feel like I have. I don't know what 'making it' even looks like for me, which makes it very hard to feel like I'm any where near getting there. It's exhausting.

Wealth management as in financial advice? Isn’t that not in a great place now? I’ve just seen countless layoffs. Plus it’s a load of exams, so I’m hesitant to do anything like that as it comes with a financial and time commitment if there’s no pay off.

im in product ownership/ management. Product manager 45-60 which is where I am. I don’t think it’s too bad for mid 30s, but Snr product managers earn around 75k and then obviously can climb from there when you start to be head of.

i don’t really know the first thing about investment banking though, just that it’s high stakes and high stress. How does one get into it?

Maybe it's my age, or my personality but I've never really been that keen on stuff. In fact clearing out a parents home made me quite determined to limit it in my life.

I don't really like going on holiday - I find it more stressful than being at home. I like walking, reading and my idea of luxuries are a cappuccino and chocolate.

I don't understand why people need new furniture fittings or appliances until the old ones no longer function - likewise clothes/shoes.

I just don't 'want' - other than peace and quiet on occasion and for the weather to be good.

So for me 'enough' is easy to achieve.

I work in finance too lol

In London, which really does make a difference to earning potential, but then again, COL is so much higher. Even ordinary things like M&S sandwiches being a different (higher) price in London!

My job isn't stressful on a day to day basis, until it becomes stressful e.g. I had a key member of staff go off sick unexpectedly for a long period of time. I worked round the clock, including weekends, to make sure our 500 staff got paid on time, otherwise they wouldn't have received any money on payday.

Going up the ladder helps you build up the experience and resilience to deal with those sorts of situations, and not be fazed by it.

My social circle who are all of similar backgrounds and success also thrive on being able to provide our DC with the experiences and opportunities that our parents could only have dreamed of. None of us drives any kind of flashy car, or aspires to material things when we earn more.

What do you do?

i quite like my area, low stress in the grand scheme of things but maybe to unlock my dream hols I need to consider a switch

I don't think it sounds as if this is about jobs or earning but an innate sense you are not achieving what you need to to feel fulfilled? If you are doing a job where you need to be saving money for a big business, or catching out the little guy in some way or taking funds from something you think is worthwhile you are doing what most people's jobs consist of. Honestly, no one goes to school and thinks they'll become part of a system that doesn't know who they are/care about their interests or talent yet most of us do end up doing this for at least part of our working days. IME Dr/nurses/teachers are an exception and don't often feel this way but they are exasperated that they can't do their job properly because of poor government funding, which is just as bad.

I find that hobbies and activities in nature on the weekend are the things I look forward to the most. If I can't do these I end up home doing housework until the next week starts again; not what I feel is a good use of life. I know I need to spend at least 4hrs on a weekend walking around a new town/using an SUP on a river/discover pub walks with the dog - exploring keeps my brain ticking in a way work can't.

I made a real effort in covid to discover what makes me happy and I decided; family, dog; nature & food. I did a lot of travelling already, which I am glad for now as the world seems to have gone mad for it and prices have shot up as well as places so packed it's not so much fun. I'd suggest these points are similar to most peoples' lists if they made one, so it's about fitting more of them, quality and quantity, into your free time.

This helps me. https://wid.world/income-comparator/

I think there are two aspects to your post, OP. The first is why achievements and material gains are ultimately unrewarding, because you just keep wanting more- that's the human condition unfortunately and it's known as the hedonic treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill or hedonic adaptation- if your baseline mental state is one of mild dissatisfaction then that's where you'll always end up as you adapt to having gained the next thing.

Your second paragraph seemed broader than that and more about whether work, family and material goods are things which are capable of being satisfying. I think often long term satisfaction comes from the feeling of being useful at something you think is valuable. So for work to ultimately be satisfying it needs to be something that you feel is actually valuable in its own right, rather than just because it gives you money and/or status. This is why volunteering tends to give people a big boost in happiness and satisfaction- you know you're being useful and you know that it's in the service of something you feel is important in the grander scheme, rather than just your own interests. Trying to satisfy yourself by doing things for yourself works less well in the long term, because you just adapt to it and it becomes your new normal.

(Re family- for me at least this is something that is genuinely satisfying but I think that sense of satisfaction often arrives in the longer term, rather than when you're actually in the weeds grappling with nappies or school runs.)