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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ballater/Braemer doable or too expensive?

152 replies

Treesandsheepeverywhere · 03/03/2024 10:59

Hi, anyone know/live in or around Ballater or Braemer please help.

We are planning a move with a 300k budget for possibly a detached/semi 2 bed.

Is this realistic and which place is better?

Londoners all our lives with lots of country breaks, so love the countryside but have only ever done 2 weeks max.

Favourite places are Northumberland, Lake District & the Yorkshire Dales.
Love outdoorsy activities and are both big walkers and cyclists.

YABU - Boring villages with nothing for that budget.
YANBU - Go for it, you may find a gem and learn to love the different pace of life.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
SabrinaThwaite · 05/03/2024 15:41

Yes you’re right - they were Wee Freers.

I always get the Free Church and the Church of Scotland mixed up Blush

Treesandsheepeverywhere · 05/03/2024 17:42

More locations to add to the list, thank you for suggestions.

I love Wales but it just doesn't have the same pull as somewhere to live.

So far, Perthshire and Aboyne seem to be the top suggestions but don't want too much of a city.
Thank you for all the advice, taking it all in and will investigate further.

@NotInvolved, @montysma1 ,
this is encouraging, thank you.
If we did move there, I'd like to think we would stick it out and not balk at the first sign of extended darkness.

@Geebray 😅. I'll write back after the big move. 🤞

Thank you @Peakypolly , but looking for something more cottagey.

@stealtheatingtunnocks
@Westwindworries
There goes my vegetable garden dream!!

We are also part of our local Church and take part in weekly Holy Communion, which we hoped to cary on 😶.

Is it a case of no socialising after Church and Church of England style ones being harder to find?

OP posts:
SaffronSpice · 05/03/2024 17:56

Definitely recommend visiting in winter - it is beautiful then and quieter. Not dark until 10am, more like 9am in mid winter though you do get gloomy days. Longer summer days too. Flooding happened a number of years ago but it is not a regular thing - there had been no flooding for decades before that. It can snow but again most winters only a few weeks here or there. And power cuts are not that common either - the storm that hit a few years ago cutting off power for a couple of weeks was exceptional.

Don’t listen to the scare mongers - I think they are trying to keep you away!

SaffronSpice · 05/03/2024 17:59

Is it a case of no socialising after Church and Church of England style ones being harder to find?

The Anglican churches in Scotland are called Episcopalian. The minister in Ballater covers Episcopalian churches from Aboyne to Mar lodge. They enjoy coffee and cake after their service.

http://stkentigernsballater.aodiocese.org.uk/

St Kentigern's Church. Charity No: SC007894 – Ballater

http://stkentigernsballater.aodiocese.org.uk/

Westwindworries · 05/03/2024 18:14

SaffronSpice · 05/03/2024 17:59

Is it a case of no socialising after Church and Church of England style ones being harder to find?

The Anglican churches in Scotland are called Episcopalian. The minister in Ballater covers Episcopalian churches from Aboyne to Mar lodge. They enjoy coffee and cake after their service.

http://stkentigernsballater.aodiocese.org.uk/

No, their issue was specifically that C of S (Presbyterian) services don't include a weekly Eucharist. Our village church had quarterly Communion, i.e. just 4 times a year. They didn't feel that it was a "proper" service without the Eucharist.

Then when we did have Communion, it wasn't in the form they were used to (ordinary bread rather than wafers etc) It just hadn't occurred to them that the Church of Scotland wasn't the Scottish branch of the Church of England.

Plenty of post-service socialising in the C of S, including excellent home baking!

MaybeWhoKnew · 05/03/2024 18:53

OP well done for posting here and thank goodness you did ;-)
I would love to hear what you decide upon!

nameXname · 05/03/2024 18:59

OP I live somewhere very remote and spectacurlarly beautiful in the west, so I don't know much about the east. But over the past 60 years I have seen an enormous change in Scottish rural life. So many of the more convenient/photogenic communities have been taken over by rich incomers, from England but also from Scandinavia, Netherlands, Germany. They have the money - and money talks. Not nastily - many of the incomers are really nice people - but they tend to assume that everyone can afford a big 4x4 (eg when steep and treacherous local roads not gritted, because of council cuts, these are really needed in bad winter weather) and that skews local service provision.

Richer incomers have time and money to drive longish distances to access services/shops - our nearest supermarket/hospital /dentist is getting on for 50 miles away - there are no taxis because everyone has big cars etc etc etc. There is one excellent bus to our village, but just once per day, and at rather odd times, because it doubles as the school bus. And, as others have mentioned, communications can be a real issue. We have OK broadband (Scotnet) but our mobile (Vodaphone) signal can be out of action for MONTHS at a time, and is temprmental at best.

I'm saying all the following because in many/most really rural communities you will find the following. And you'll need to be able to relate to them ALL:

a) the really poor/very old/ retired basic wage earners/unfit to work/ or out of work labourers etc Cared for by friends, families, local GPs and associated sometimes voluntary welfare/ mental health schemes but pretty poor and powerless - even if they had done important/influential things in the past. It's their community as well as yours.

b) the rich incomers. They have cars and money and can do things to old/derelict houses and land that most locals can only dream of. Bear this in mind.

d) the local crofting families - or whatever is the equivalent in the east. These people have a very justifiable pride in belonging. They will know far more than you ever will about the land and its particularities. They may be very keen to be pally with the local landowner or (for past/present local politics reasons) quite the reverse. Many of them will be land rich but cash poor - unless they are the utterly indespensible chaps with the local big diggers. They will be there at the local pub: just don't let them - as happened locally - overhear you as incomers calling the locals 'hicks'.

e) yer hippies. Sweet and well meaning but (to some at least) infuriating. They tend to run expensive workshops about tree-hugging - am not kidding - and to have blogs telling people who have grown kale etc for centuries how (metaphorically) to suck eggs.

f) church various communities are important - though in my experience, locally, they tend to pull very much together over social and voluntary good works initiatives. That's totally admirable. However, the doctrinal differences do remain, and should be handled sensitively, as I am sure you would.

When it comes to gardening, the warnings about kale, kale, kale and potatoes really do ring true. The good side to this is that both crops LOVE it locally and it's hard to stop them flourishing. Ditto posh purple sprouting broccoli. In my experience, chard, rhubarb, raspberries and blackcurrants (especially the latter) also do very well, as do strawberries in containers. We have wild strawberries everywhere - fruiting just a few, once a year, but such a magical taste - growing like weeds. Up here, you CAN grow apples but late frosts can decimate crops. Ditto pears. For salads, I find sheltered raised beds - a polytunnel even bettter - mean good crops in summer but the low light levels in winter (and autumn and spring) really do have an effect. For example, I've never been able to grow child-like-simple radishes out of doors. Chervil and parsely OK; but tomatoes much the best indoors, pressing up against the french windows.

Re chickens, we gave up after one-by-one they were killed by foxes and pine martens. If you want to keep chickens as total prisoners in runs/cages, to be surrounded every night by predators trying to get in - and they do - then OK but I would not inflict that on them again.

Re Newtonmore. Go there and spend DAYS at the fabulous Highland Folk Museum. Study everything there really hard to learn about the past culture that you'll be moving into - and about how tough/simple/downright CLEVER it was. As others have said, I'm a bit worried that you don't know about this already.

MaybeWhoKnew · 05/03/2024 19:28

nameXname · 05/03/2024 18:59

OP I live somewhere very remote and spectacurlarly beautiful in the west, so I don't know much about the east. But over the past 60 years I have seen an enormous change in Scottish rural life. So many of the more convenient/photogenic communities have been taken over by rich incomers, from England but also from Scandinavia, Netherlands, Germany. They have the money - and money talks. Not nastily - many of the incomers are really nice people - but they tend to assume that everyone can afford a big 4x4 (eg when steep and treacherous local roads not gritted, because of council cuts, these are really needed in bad winter weather) and that skews local service provision.

Richer incomers have time and money to drive longish distances to access services/shops - our nearest supermarket/hospital /dentist is getting on for 50 miles away - there are no taxis because everyone has big cars etc etc etc. There is one excellent bus to our village, but just once per day, and at rather odd times, because it doubles as the school bus. And, as others have mentioned, communications can be a real issue. We have OK broadband (Scotnet) but our mobile (Vodaphone) signal can be out of action for MONTHS at a time, and is temprmental at best.

I'm saying all the following because in many/most really rural communities you will find the following. And you'll need to be able to relate to them ALL:

a) the really poor/very old/ retired basic wage earners/unfit to work/ or out of work labourers etc Cared for by friends, families, local GPs and associated sometimes voluntary welfare/ mental health schemes but pretty poor and powerless - even if they had done important/influential things in the past. It's their community as well as yours.

b) the rich incomers. They have cars and money and can do things to old/derelict houses and land that most locals can only dream of. Bear this in mind.

d) the local crofting families - or whatever is the equivalent in the east. These people have a very justifiable pride in belonging. They will know far more than you ever will about the land and its particularities. They may be very keen to be pally with the local landowner or (for past/present local politics reasons) quite the reverse. Many of them will be land rich but cash poor - unless they are the utterly indespensible chaps with the local big diggers. They will be there at the local pub: just don't let them - as happened locally - overhear you as incomers calling the locals 'hicks'.

e) yer hippies. Sweet and well meaning but (to some at least) infuriating. They tend to run expensive workshops about tree-hugging - am not kidding - and to have blogs telling people who have grown kale etc for centuries how (metaphorically) to suck eggs.

f) church various communities are important - though in my experience, locally, they tend to pull very much together over social and voluntary good works initiatives. That's totally admirable. However, the doctrinal differences do remain, and should be handled sensitively, as I am sure you would.

When it comes to gardening, the warnings about kale, kale, kale and potatoes really do ring true. The good side to this is that both crops LOVE it locally and it's hard to stop them flourishing. Ditto posh purple sprouting broccoli. In my experience, chard, rhubarb, raspberries and blackcurrants (especially the latter) also do very well, as do strawberries in containers. We have wild strawberries everywhere - fruiting just a few, once a year, but such a magical taste - growing like weeds. Up here, you CAN grow apples but late frosts can decimate crops. Ditto pears. For salads, I find sheltered raised beds - a polytunnel even bettter - mean good crops in summer but the low light levels in winter (and autumn and spring) really do have an effect. For example, I've never been able to grow child-like-simple radishes out of doors. Chervil and parsely OK; but tomatoes much the best indoors, pressing up against the french windows.

Re chickens, we gave up after one-by-one they were killed by foxes and pine martens. If you want to keep chickens as total prisoners in runs/cages, to be surrounded every night by predators trying to get in - and they do - then OK but I would not inflict that on them again.

Re Newtonmore. Go there and spend DAYS at the fabulous Highland Folk Museum. Study everything there really hard to learn about the past culture that you'll be moving into - and about how tough/simple/downright CLEVER it was. As others have said, I'm a bit worried that you don't know about this already.

I am learning so much from this thread. It’s fascinating.

We all live such different lives. I can’t imagine living fifty miles from a supermarket. Just as many can’t imagine commuting to busy central London.

I am now down a rabbit hole of looking at maps of Scotland and improving my geography!

jolies1 · 05/03/2024 19:37

Treesandsheepeverywhere · 05/03/2024 17:42

More locations to add to the list, thank you for suggestions.

I love Wales but it just doesn't have the same pull as somewhere to live.

So far, Perthshire and Aboyne seem to be the top suggestions but don't want too much of a city.
Thank you for all the advice, taking it all in and will investigate further.

@NotInvolved, @montysma1 ,
this is encouraging, thank you.
If we did move there, I'd like to think we would stick it out and not balk at the first sign of extended darkness.

@Geebray 😅. I'll write back after the big move. 🤞

Thank you @Peakypolly , but looking for something more cottagey.

@stealtheatingtunnocks
@Westwindworries
There goes my vegetable garden dream!!

We are also part of our local Church and take part in weekly Holy Communion, which we hoped to cary on 😶.

Is it a case of no socialising after Church and Church of England style ones being harder to find?

Perthshire has lots of lovely villages and hamlets that feel a long way from anywhere but are manageable drives to the Perth if you need a big supermarket/ hospital and a couple of hours to major airports in Edinburgh/ Glasgow for hols or visiting friends back in London. Agree with other posters about Crieff, Auchterrader or if you would like the highlands to be more accessible the Pitlochry, Aberfeldy (including any of the surrounding smaller villages?) Good community feel with local run events. Take a trip up and drive through lots of areas to check them out :)

Also parts of Perthshire great for growing strawberries!

MaryLennoxsScowl · 05/03/2024 19:53

My grandparents grew tomatoes in a greenhouse, blackcurrants, raspberries, alpine strawberries (so delicious), potatoes, carrots, peas, redcurrants, gooseberries and probably much more that I can’t remember now. There are commercial strawberry farms near Aberdeen that don’t use poly tunnels - it’s completely possible to grow plenty of things besides kale and tatties! Chickens, well, I would expect to keep them in a properly secure coop at night to avoid them being eaten by foxes, but you can let them out during the day (assuming no bird flu restrictions). What other pets would you consider?
The thing with having a well, lpg gas for the cooker, oil for heating and a wood burning stove is that all those things are really practical in the power cuts. Add some solar panels or a windmill and you’d be fine.

SomeCatFromJapan · 05/03/2024 19:57

Locals are kicking off in Braemar over the insane level of disruption being caused by the Fife Arms. I wouldn’t be picking there for a quiet life until that’s resolved.

I just googled that. It sounds like a very posh dispute (not making light, I'm sure it's just as annoying and disruptive). I was picturing rough people brawling, which says more about where I live than anything I think.

BreakfastAtMimis · 05/03/2024 20:09

😂 Love these threads where Londoners think they can just up and move to rural north Scotland and get absolutely telt.

Chipsahoy · 05/03/2024 20:17

SabrinaThwaite · 05/03/2024 13:10

I remember driving over the Glens of Foudland early one morning on the way up to the Moray coast and watching the temp indicator drop to -13°C. Arriving at the coast it felt positively balmy at only 0°C.

We moved south because we were fed up with always being 10°C colder than the south of England. If we got a nice sunny summers day invariably the haar would roll in.

Aberdeen itself is not that isolated honest, there are shops and cinemas and trains as well as good dolphin watching!!

It’s a bugger to go anywhere else though, like for a holiday - it’s either drive to the central belt to get a more direct flight or fly to London and then get another flight.

Glens of found land is where we are. Moved from England to here. It’s definitely cold and very windy! Still adore it.

One pp mentioned not being able to see a gp easily in Aberdeen. No problems at all where I am in Aberdeenshire. Always get in quickly and they answer the phone! Didn’t have that when I lived in England.

Chipsahoy · 05/03/2024 20:24

nameXname · 05/03/2024 18:59

OP I live somewhere very remote and spectacurlarly beautiful in the west, so I don't know much about the east. But over the past 60 years I have seen an enormous change in Scottish rural life. So many of the more convenient/photogenic communities have been taken over by rich incomers, from England but also from Scandinavia, Netherlands, Germany. They have the money - and money talks. Not nastily - many of the incomers are really nice people - but they tend to assume that everyone can afford a big 4x4 (eg when steep and treacherous local roads not gritted, because of council cuts, these are really needed in bad winter weather) and that skews local service provision.

Richer incomers have time and money to drive longish distances to access services/shops - our nearest supermarket/hospital /dentist is getting on for 50 miles away - there are no taxis because everyone has big cars etc etc etc. There is one excellent bus to our village, but just once per day, and at rather odd times, because it doubles as the school bus. And, as others have mentioned, communications can be a real issue. We have OK broadband (Scotnet) but our mobile (Vodaphone) signal can be out of action for MONTHS at a time, and is temprmental at best.

I'm saying all the following because in many/most really rural communities you will find the following. And you'll need to be able to relate to them ALL:

a) the really poor/very old/ retired basic wage earners/unfit to work/ or out of work labourers etc Cared for by friends, families, local GPs and associated sometimes voluntary welfare/ mental health schemes but pretty poor and powerless - even if they had done important/influential things in the past. It's their community as well as yours.

b) the rich incomers. They have cars and money and can do things to old/derelict houses and land that most locals can only dream of. Bear this in mind.

d) the local crofting families - or whatever is the equivalent in the east. These people have a very justifiable pride in belonging. They will know far more than you ever will about the land and its particularities. They may be very keen to be pally with the local landowner or (for past/present local politics reasons) quite the reverse. Many of them will be land rich but cash poor - unless they are the utterly indespensible chaps with the local big diggers. They will be there at the local pub: just don't let them - as happened locally - overhear you as incomers calling the locals 'hicks'.

e) yer hippies. Sweet and well meaning but (to some at least) infuriating. They tend to run expensive workshops about tree-hugging - am not kidding - and to have blogs telling people who have grown kale etc for centuries how (metaphorically) to suck eggs.

f) church various communities are important - though in my experience, locally, they tend to pull very much together over social and voluntary good works initiatives. That's totally admirable. However, the doctrinal differences do remain, and should be handled sensitively, as I am sure you would.

When it comes to gardening, the warnings about kale, kale, kale and potatoes really do ring true. The good side to this is that both crops LOVE it locally and it's hard to stop them flourishing. Ditto posh purple sprouting broccoli. In my experience, chard, rhubarb, raspberries and blackcurrants (especially the latter) also do very well, as do strawberries in containers. We have wild strawberries everywhere - fruiting just a few, once a year, but such a magical taste - growing like weeds. Up here, you CAN grow apples but late frosts can decimate crops. Ditto pears. For salads, I find sheltered raised beds - a polytunnel even bettter - mean good crops in summer but the low light levels in winter (and autumn and spring) really do have an effect. For example, I've never been able to grow child-like-simple radishes out of doors. Chervil and parsely OK; but tomatoes much the best indoors, pressing up against the french windows.

Re chickens, we gave up after one-by-one they were killed by foxes and pine martens. If you want to keep chickens as total prisoners in runs/cages, to be surrounded every night by predators trying to get in - and they do - then OK but I would not inflict that on them again.

Re Newtonmore. Go there and spend DAYS at the fabulous Highland Folk Museum. Study everything there really hard to learn about the past culture that you'll be moving into - and about how tough/simple/downright CLEVER it was. As others have said, I'm a bit worried that you don't know about this already.

We have had chickens for two years now. Very rural. Not had any predators get them. There run is very very large, bigger than most people’s back yard and they free range when we are outside. Night time their pen is very secure. Oh and we stick the dog out there with them to keep them safe.

nameXname · 05/03/2024 20:29

@MaryLennox - it was mostly - though not always - during the free-range daytime that our chickens were killed. The pine martens lurked in the bracken/bog myrtle/willow scrub etc and just pounced. The foxes did the same at night. Not at all nice.

The following is definitely NOT from us but shows pine martens at their most utterly enchanting (although NB the growls): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-68446327

Pine martens

Pine martens play on a garden swing in the Highlands

Playful pine martens enjoy a children's swing set in the Highlands.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-68446327

Westwindworries · 05/03/2024 20:29

We are also part of our local Church and take part in weekly Holy Communion, which we hoped to cary on 😶.

You won't have any problem finding an Episcopalian church. I was just using church as an example of one couple's culture shock. In their case their dream had been the chickens/ veg on the outskirts of the village and a pleasant stroll to church on a Sunday. But the only church in the village is C of S, and they found the C of S services very different to the services they were used to, specifically, no weekly communion. So they were juggling driving to an Episcopalian church / having the authentic village Presbyterian experience.

They loved the rest of it - sold something with a pocket handkerchief garden in the south and bought a much bigger house with an acre of land for the same price.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 05/03/2024 20:31

I want a pine Martin.

Butterfrog · 05/03/2024 20:34

@Chipsahoy I reckon wherever you keep chickens in the country they can be got by predators. Like you say close the pen when it’s dark.

I always found it incredible in the shortest days in NE Scotland the hens took themselves into their house say around 3 pm and would stay there till sometimes after 8 when it got light. Then in the summer they’re out till after 10 (so you’ve either got to stay up or rattle some grain and round them up) and off the perches very early. Fascinating creatures!

nameXname · 05/03/2024 20:41

@stealtheatingtunnocks Lat summer, a mother pine marten brought her two young to our bird feeders every evening to see what peanuts they could get hold of. The babies were delightful and played just like kittens. The mother behaved just like a cat with kittens, as well. They still come back every night - nearly fell over one yesterday.

@Butterfrog Yes, hens do indeed do that. (I really like them - they have such strong characters.) But we found that unless we were there to shut them up at any time all aftenoon -depending on light levels - every single day. they simply were not safe. The previous poster's suggestion of a dog in a run with them overnight would I am sure work very well.

Butterfrog · 05/03/2024 20:50

@nameXname I’ve also lost hens in broad daylight, and big cockerels, it was a real shock.

I love the sound of where you are over the west!

WearyAuldWumman · 05/03/2024 20:54

My husband was a Crathie loon.

He pointed out that those of us from the central belt aren't used to Deeside winters. Also, it adds to travel costs if you want to visit other parts of the world.

I'll reiterate what others have said about the insurance problem. Our friends were flooded out when the Dee burst its banks.

Ishagonnaland · 05/03/2024 20:58

Born & bred & returner to Royal Deeside here ….

Take some of these comments with the pinch of salt relative to what you’re looking for. Particularly Braemar ….
Remote? Yes compared to lots of places - but if you want remote, tick in the box.
midges - never bothered with them
incomers? We like them mainly, but to paraphrase “couldn’t eat a whole one” 😂
Tesco, Asda & Sainsbury’s do online food deliveries. And the co-op can often be found open still at 9.30/10pm.
yes the power & internet can go down … but power cuts are known in other areas too.
its a community which appreciates those who volunteer - whether for something arts-related, youth groups, community, heritage. You’ll be snapped up.

yes it’s a good 60-90 minutes drive in an ambulance to A&E … but conversely it’s an area frequented by air ambulance and HMCG helicopter (the sheep in the shared field are well-versed in keeping a safe distance from landing helicopters!!)

Availability of property will be your biggest challenge- there’s never loads on the market, let alone for your budget.

enjoy if you do make the move - yeah the winters can be tough but it’s the most glorious place on earth when the sun shines!

feellikeanalien · 05/03/2024 21:20

What about Northumberland OP? Beautiful coastline, rugged national park with great walks on Hadrian's Wall but still close to Newcastle with all its theatres, concert halls and restaurants. We're in the wilds of Northumberland but can be in Newcastle in 40 minutes. Hexham is half an hour away with a concert hall, independent cinema, Waitrose, Tesco (although sadly M&S is closing!), lots of independent coffee shops and restaurants.

Mainline train from Newcastle goes straight to London. You have Newcastle airport but also Edinburgh only an hour and a half away.

It takes us about half an hour to get to the Scottish borders where there are some lovely towns and packed with history.

I'm actually Scottish and was born in Caithness so I do know a bit about rural living.😀

SomeCatFromJapan · 05/03/2024 21:23

@nameXname A couple I follow on youtube who hsve a smallholding in Portugal keep a guardian livestock dog, which means their chickens stay safe free ranging during the day.

Before they got him there was an unfortunate mass slaughter involving a mongoose.

SabrinaThwaite · 05/03/2024 21:36

Mongooses (Mongeese?) in Portugal? Who knew!