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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

There’s NO point earning over £50k?!

735 replies

ThisReallyDoesntAddUp · 02/03/2024 21:04

Because of the £50k child benefit limit and 40% tax rate!

So I earn £78,000 pro rata overall now with my job following a mid year pay rise. This includes bonus and car allowance. I work 4 days a week (80% equivalent) which brings the overall pay this year down to just shy of £50k with a £9.6k bonus.

Out of the £9.6K bonus due in March, I’ve worked out 40% will go to the taxman, over £2K will need paying back for child benefit as I’m now over the £50k threshold, and a further £800ish will go towards my student loan. Deductions of just under £6k!!! This means I’ll only take home 30% of my bonus?!

I’m now on mat leave for baby number 3. AIBU to make sure when I go back I remain under the £50k mark by reducing hours even further?! I’d then have less to pay in childcare mitigating the difference in the pay I’d receive working an extra day each week.

Its an absolute joke, I was hoping to go back to work after my last baby and push on hard with my career but what is the actual point!! I may as well work less hours, keep the child benefit and pay less in childcare!

OP posts:
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Vod · 06/03/2024 11:48

JessS1990 · 06/03/2024 10:14

Surely the value to society of parents spending more time with their children is far greater than the loss of tax income?

I think if you want to make that argument, fine. But if we're to have policy on that basis, the government should be clear about it and also explain why marginal tax rates are to be used to encourage it at certain income levels and not others.

There should also be honesty about the potential impact on others of people in that cohort working less. This clearly isn't happening at the moment. Some of the contributions on this thread make it clear that not everyone has actually clocked that the way our tax system functions and intersects with other entitlements could be the reason their dentist won't work an extra afternoon, the local plumber doesn't do Friday jobs, they can't recruit for a particular vacancy at work etc.

cremebrulait · 06/03/2024 11:51

Its really sad that the system is so broken that people would prefer to work less and get a government hand out. No no. I'm not faulting OP. I'm faulting the system. There shouldn't be this point where you fall off a cliff. You cut back and get more money being paid into tax contributions by everyone else. It's fair to nobody.

entropynow · 06/03/2024 11:58

cremebrulait · 06/03/2024 11:51

Its really sad that the system is so broken that people would prefer to work less and get a government hand out. No no. I'm not faulting OP. I'm faulting the system. There shouldn't be this point where you fall off a cliff. You cut back and get more money being paid into tax contributions by everyone else. It's fair to nobody.

But apparently people on over 50k are OK to complain about taxes? They also want a handout...

RedCircleLine · 06/03/2024 12:08

I keep reading about the UK's "productivity problems" and have to admit here that I'm a part of it.

I earn about 90k full-time.

But I'm in Scotland, so I pay thousands of £s more in taxes vs. my English family members. (No, i didn't benefit from free university, but I do get free prescriptions and eye tests.)

I have a very responsible, senior, stressful role. I also have small DC (and a husband that more than pulls his weight at home, works part time, and his job has been impacted worse by taking the sick days/drop offs and pickups etc).

I'm about to go into my annual performance review chat in 2 week's time and my C-level line manager is going to ask my career plan to get to the next grade.

I need to formulate a narrative which is a more polite version of:
"I'm good at my job. My customers love me, my colleagues ask to work with me, you know it already. But I can't handle the stress that comes with being at the "next level up". And even if I did want the extra responsibility, why would I, it's not worth the net pay increase. Can I go 4 days a week instead?"

I've crunched the numbers - by the time I factor in the loss of child benefit, the tax/NI cliff at 43k-50k, extra Scottish rate of income tax at £75k, and then potentially the whammy at a new potential salary of 100k... I'm not even convinced that my last promotion was worth it vs. the responsibility and stress, never mind my supposed next one. I'd rather look at ways to reduce my work level because just automatically doing more more more more... i'm not seeing the reward being proportionate in future.

This is the first year I've started to think like this - i've just adjusted my pension contributions to start reducing my income to offset the tax pressures further; I've always paid into my pension but now it's the first year I've done it as a direct result of the tax situation making it nonsensicle not to salary sacrifice down as much as possible.

Before I became a stressed, frazzled mess of a mother, i was head down for years thinking hard work pays off. In my case, it mostly has, don't get me wrong.. but I can now see why others are saying F this and stepping back. That's not a workforce productivity problem, that's a "workers choosing to opt out of the craziness if they have a choice" problem.

I know i'm in a privileged position to talk like this. But until someone does something about the relative levels of tax, NI, and net income cliffs that exist in the UK tax system, more people are going to start to think like me. And that's scary, because we should be incentivising people that working harder/more = rewards more. At the moment, it doesn't feel like that.

samarrange · 06/03/2024 12:11

khakifingers · 06/03/2024 08:54

Unless you maxed out on your lifetime allowance without noticing as happened to a few people when the impact of the lifetime allowance hadn't been fully analysed. I understand they will pay 55% tax on that. Not that anyone cares much for the overprivileged few.

True. Nobody took any notice until they noticed that senior doctors (perhaps the only class of people making six figures who everyone likes) were walking away from the NHS in droves because they were losing money by working.

Chris002 · 06/03/2024 12:19

Maybe the government should look at changing the child benefit system again
Perhaps tie it In with universal credit so you only get it if your total household income is on or under the threshold for uc.
At the same they could encourage employers of higher income bracket earners to come up with incentives to help with child care costs nursery etc

BIossomtoes · 06/03/2024 12:21

samarrange · 06/03/2024 12:11

True. Nobody took any notice until they noticed that senior doctors (perhaps the only class of people making six figures who everyone likes) were walking away from the NHS in droves because they were losing money by working.

That’s because they were doing what’s widely recommended here and stuffing their pension then they reached the lifetime limit and that particular wheeze no longer worked.

Vod · 06/03/2024 12:35

Yes, the NHS pension scheme and tax systems having intersected to discourage senior doctors from working more is another corker. A leading candidate in a competitive field!

YouJustDoYou · 06/03/2024 12:41

We wouldn't mind the stupendous amounts of tax we pay, IF it actually went on continuing a successful society and economy. It's a shitshow no matter who is leading. We're looking to leave for greener shores and taking our tax money with us to better spend in a better country than this shit hole.

567839Y · 06/03/2024 13:00

Pensions can also be a bit if a rip off. Pay all the money into a pension you might never see. And if you do see it it could easily fall through the floor the month before you retire. Meanwhile someone somewhere made money off your money.

it’s very tricky to decide what to do.

final salary pension - def worth it

BIossomtoes · 06/03/2024 13:05

567839Y · 06/03/2024 13:00

Pensions can also be a bit if a rip off. Pay all the money into a pension you might never see. And if you do see it it could easily fall through the floor the month before you retire. Meanwhile someone somewhere made money off your money.

it’s very tricky to decide what to do.

final salary pension - def worth it

A friend of mine is currently selling a flat belonging to someone who’d just retired when they were diagnosed with a catastrophic brain tumour. Surgery removed it but with such extensive damage they’ll spend the rest of their life in a care home. Everything they worked and scrimped and saved for throughout their life is now paying their fees.

Vod · 06/03/2024 13:17

Mmm, it's complex. So the uncertain nature of pensions does sometimes persuade people to reduce hours and income to stay under the threshold, rather than putting the extra into a pension. Depends so much on people's personal circumstances.

T0ASTER · 06/03/2024 13:31

Looks like Hunt is moving it to household based for child benefit

chickensandbees · 06/03/2024 13:34

T0ASTER · 06/03/2024 13:31

Looks like Hunt is moving it to household based for child benefit

And raising threshold at which you start to lose CB to £60k from April.

Mmmama89 · 06/03/2024 13:37

So hang on one second once you earn £50k or more it’s not that child benefit stops - you have to pay back all the earns you’ve received it???

BIossomtoes · 06/03/2024 13:37

Mmmama89 · 06/03/2024 13:37

So hang on one second once you earn £50k or more it’s not that child benefit stops - you have to pay back all the earns you’ve received it???

No. Of course not.

Vod · 06/03/2024 13:37

Martin Lewis

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1765370628859629799

Says the threshold increases to 60k from next month and there's a consultation on moving to family not individual income. So it appears that individual income will be in place for the next tax year, unless there's a GE quite soon and Labour change that as soon as they get in I guess.

https://twitter.com/MartinSLewis/status/1765370628859629799

BIossomtoes · 06/03/2024 13:40

Consultations take years and usually come to nothing. Women didn’t fight a long, hard battle for financial autonomy only to give it away again.

messybutfun · 06/03/2024 13:40

It will move to £60k with a taper extended to £80k

whistleblower99 · 06/03/2024 13:42

We don’t get CHB as we earn far too much. However, that’s a good move and the right move. About time.

messybutfun · 06/03/2024 13:42

BIossomtoes · 06/03/2024 13:40

Consultations take years and usually come to nothing. Women didn’t fight a long, hard battle for financial autonomy only to give it away again.

It is already based on both salaries not breaching the threshold so it makes no difference to anybody’s autonomy

BIossomtoes · 06/03/2024 13:43

messybutfun · 06/03/2024 13:42

It is already based on both salaries not breaching the threshold so it makes no difference to anybody’s autonomy

What is?

Vod · 06/03/2024 13:44

Consultations at this point in time are even more shaky than usual really. We have a government who might not even be in long enough to get them started, much less to implement the results.

BIossomtoes · 06/03/2024 13:45

Vod · 06/03/2024 13:44

Consultations at this point in time are even more shaky than usual really. We have a government who might not even be in long enough to get them started, much less to implement the results.

Exactly.

Kathryn1983 · 06/03/2024 13:46

Looks like by the time you start back after Mat leave the threshold will have moved to 60k for the child benefit charge anyway