Those who raised serious grievances against managers, what was the outcome?

[Quirkyme]

I know that plenty of people raise grievances against managers. However, I mostly hear of the managers getting a little slap on the wrist and eventually the person who raised the grievance leaves.

Have you ever raised a serious grievance against a manager, like I mean, the grievance being hugely incriminating beyond belief? What was the outcome?

I’ve reported my bullying manager this week regarding committing multiple data breaches sharing my personal employment information on an open platform, and I’m in the process of writing a grievance including that and many other events. When I’m going through the incidents and evidence now, basically reliving it all… I honestly can’t believe what’s occurred, it’s so shocking it’s unreal.

I’m not sure what will come of it all.

Have you been in a similar situation? What was the outcome? Were they moved suspended/sacked? Or did it have any bearing on their future employment/promotions?

Did you receive "justice" or a result you were happy with or did you have to escalate it via tribunal/lawsuit?

I've been involved in many, although never raised one myself. Even when they are found against the manager, it's usually an apology or mediation and the employee leaves soon after.

I've watched a manager on my team do something life ruining to someone and get away with it in a government department so nothing surprises me

What result are you hoping for?

I was bullied and went to hr for advice - they told me that it takes a long time to change a toxic environment so their advice was to leave the job I’d done for 8 years as execs knew what she was like when they hired her 12 months earlier and wouldn’t want to lose face. Sucks but I hope karma gets her.

dh had an awful situation with manager bullying him in his late 20s. He ended up leaving. Now I wouldn’t wish cancer on anyone but age died young of bowel cancer 3 years after he left and I did feel karma had stepped in - she also had an affair and caused a lot of chaotic upset in her personal life - she honestly wasn’t a nice person at all and died alone.

Serious question, what do you want the outcome to be? A grievance should always be the absolute last step. Have you spoken to them? Or their manager about this and tried to resolve informally?

Unless it is something illegal or something considered gross misconduct (as defined in company policy) they will not be fired. A suspension is temporary, they return to their role after the investigation. Therefore, regardless of the outcome of the grievance you are still going to have to work together as their job is manager, and yours is staff member reporting to that manager.

People seem to think that a grievance will change reporting lines or bring some significant change but it very rarely does. There would have to be an alternative position available for one or both of you and then you'd both have to agree to it which is unlikely.

It will damage your relationship beyond repair, the process for both parties can be traumatic and the outcome might simply be a verbal or written warning, or some extra training for your manager. Would you be satisfied with that? How do you think they'll feel about the company and you afterwards?

All of this is why the person raising the grievance often ends up leaving, because the process doesn't bring "justice" as it's not supposed to - it's not a legal process. What happens afterwards is that it becomes untenable to work together. They've not been fired, they aren't made redundant so unless they resign themselves you will still be working together.

How is that going to improve things for you?

There's no such thing as justice in the way you mean it.

Yes, that's why I used quotations

Unless it is something illegal or something considered gross misconduct (as defined in company policy) they will not be fired.

And even then it's unlikely.

My former manager committed numerous acts of age and disability discrimination over a 9 months period. I had proof including recordings of her comments and bullying. I was moved to another manager. That was the end of it. Nothing happened to her. To my knowledge there have been many complaints about her - not one person has ever had a finding against her. Her boss simply "redeploys" the complainant every time - most don't even bother complaining any more, they just leave.

Yes, my point being it's not an outcome anybody achieves from a grievance.

I can't say too much on here but believe me it is the last resort and has been going on for a number of months now. It's very serious.

You mention damage of the relationship, untenable situation etc. I agree. But tbh, by the time it gets to raising the grievance, it's already in that position. It's not like it's a hunky dory relationship with one or a couple minor issues and the raising of the grievance completely takes it to the other end. The situation is already untenable by the time it gets here, and has been for a while. I have actually delayed doing this, and would have left already if I could.

I understand what you mean about wishing karma gets her. I generally don't wish bad on others either, even if we fall out, or I feel wronged or whatever. I just don't.

But for the first time, I'm finding that I do want bad things to happen to her.

It might sound bad and I don't mean anything like death, sickness, assault ... but I guess I mean more so negative consequences in the workplace as a result of her behaviours.

In my experience the person whom the grievance is taken out against, is promoted and given a salary increase. The person who takes out the grievance is marked down as a trouble maker, which is not forgotten when the next restructure takes place.....

I've raised 2 grievances against 2 separate management teams and had them upheld. Direct discrimination and refusal to allow reasonable adjustments that enabled me to do my job. The oh doctor had to remind them of the law, and they made me very mentally ill.

Retraining was done, written warning for poor performance rescinded, my adjustments put into place and I'm now a champion in work supporting others. Have done a lot of work to change things and am supported by senior leadership.

Things can change and it depends on the company ethos and culture. In my case, it was individuals using their own take on policies rather than looking at me as an individual.

It may be that I have a protected characteristic and they knew that it could cost them dearly in court. I never go down without a fight these days and will call out bullying and discrimination where I see it, as not everyone is able to.

A manager changed records relating to my hours affecting the hours I needed to work the academic year after. I had proof (copies of the papers I had signed off versus the altered ones). I refused to sign off the new year until I had an explanation. She accused me of gross misconduct. I started a grievance as there was no possible reason to so accuse me. I was cleared, had done nothing wrong. The grievance didn’t even look at the alterations, and it concluded she had done nothing wrong-but all the guidelines and rules were changed so the same thing couldn’t happen again. I could have gone to tribunal but I lost the will to fight and I resigned. HR is for the BUSINESS not the employee. I was hung out to dry and she carried on as usual.

They carried on and I was pushed out, I would just bite my tongue if there ever is a next time and just start job hunting asap instead of making a complaint.

So you say if you could have left already you would have - so will that change after you've raised the grievance? Because as I've said, and almost everyone else on this thread too, it's incredibly unlikely you'll get whatever outcome you want. It's awful, but it's the truth. The black and white end point is that the investigation ends and you both have to continue to work together. How will that feel for you? Will you be able to handle it, this person still being your manager every day?

I think sometimes it's better to play the long game. If you're planning to leave, wait until you've secured another role. If you aren't, then flag under your whistleblowing policy which allows you to be anonymous?

Please don’t underestimate just how stressful the procedure and the crawling though paperwork all about yourself can be. Litigation is even more stressful than that. The system stinks and needs changing but I didn’t have the will to do that. I did however have anxiety and stress and it took me a while to lick my wounds and re engage!

Yep. Huge international company. Serious issues. Serious issues around behaviour and toxic culture after new senior hire abroad. HR covering it up and leaking grievances from whistleblowing. Gross misconduct of the most serious level. It is all being covered at the highest level. All found against the person involved as there were multiple complaints. Retaliation such as restructure, performance review, etc, etc. Uphshot: NDA and payout to go quietly. They know what happened is extremely serious and would be damaging to their brand. It’s not always one off - minor infringements of employment law some CEOs in large multinational companies get away with. They get what’s coming to them eventually.

Similar company to yours. It was actually the assistant manager who spoke to everyone under her like absolute shit. Big place so for the most part people managed to avoid her, though there were around 30-40 of us (including me) who had to deal with her directly constantly through the shift. It’s funny as as far as I know, no official grievance had been made about her before this. We all just kept our heads down and did our job. Until the manager went away for a weeks training or something. The assistant manager was in charge and on a massive power trip, there were staff in tears every day over her treatment, by the time the weekend came round when we were HIT with work, 23 of us walked out and never came back. Things started unravelling very quickly for her after that. She had daily meetings and investigations, she went off the rails where she had to be escorted from the building by her own security during a staff party. And her career was completely over after a very public arrest and caution for something admittedly very minor, but something unacceptable on a dbs for what her job was. She spent close to ten years working towards the managerial job she was lined up for. Karma bites hard and quick sometimes. The more people who can and are willing to complain, the better

i did it against 2 senior guys aboit 4 years ago … one of them ‘left the business’ following the investigation and the other is still there. I involved solicitors and left the company with a big payout

so many people who hadn’t stood up the first senior manager, contacted me to thank me for sticking my head above the parapet and reporting him so that it was dealt with, as they were too nervous to do it themselves

Yep. Not before destroying many careers or many people taking the hush money to go quietly. Through fear of what would happen if they didn’t. Issue is, there is only so many times this can happen before shit sticks. In this instance to the person doing it and the head of HR covering their tracks. Power in numbers. Once it unravels karma hits quite fast.

As deputy manager, a raised a grievance on behalf of several staff members who were being bullied by our manager. I was demoted and moved to a different area.

I once complained to hr , not a formal grievance, but I took the conversation, he got in there and basically told them it was me, took me a long time to recover my career.

4 of my closest friends are HR professionals. I've never ever really seen a grievance end well for the employee who makes it.

This has been my experience also