Teacher arrested for attempted murder

[Bottomofthebarrel]

This week a teacher at my DD’s secondary school was arrested for attempted murder. He stabbed a woman in the head and neck in broad daylight, and I believe he was only unsuccessful in killing her because other people intervened. She is in a critical condition in hospital, so he could be looking at a murder charge. This has all been in the news, including the BBC.

This man was teaching my own child until very recently. She was given an after school detention by him for being very slightly late to his lesson, and the detention was just him and her sat in a room. That sends shivers down my spine now. I can’t get the whole thing out of my head.

This must be so disturbing for all the kids at the school. I feel that the school are potentially going to struggle more with behaviour control from now on - this man was employed as one of their role models so I can’t help but feel they’ve lost the moral high ground. Not to mention the effect on those who are in their exam years and are now minus a subject teacher.

How the fuck does someone like that become a teacher? I must say in the last 9 years since my DC started secondary, I’ve come across a few - all of them male - teachers who have got my back up and seem to be definite ‘power tripping know it all’ types, and not particularly bright to boot. There’s another male teacher in another local school who was in the news, having to pay £200,000 damages to his neighbour after a childish bullying campaign which went on for years.

Is this the best we can do? I get teaching isn’t the most attractive profession, but it actually terrifies me that these people are supposed to be guiding and leading our children, sometimes on a one to one basis. My worry is that with the current shortage of teachers, and desperation to fill vacancies, the standards are going to sink even lower.

This isn’t a general teacher bashing thread, there are many truly wonderful ones out there, and I know it’s an incredibly difficult job. Just feeling very shaken by what has happened this week. My DD really didn’t like this man and I assumed it was her being a stroppy teen, now I feel awful for not taking her seriously.

All you can do is talk to your child about it and maybe use it as an opportunity to talk to her about domestic violence, how many women are hurt or killed by their partners, and let her know that you will be there to support her if she ever finds herself in a bad relationship, which she shouldn't hesitate to leave.

There is no "solution". You can't predict who may or may not commit a crime. Anyone is capable of snapping in a fit of rage, having a mental breakdown or indeed planning to kill someone - including teens.

Unless the children witnessed the attack they aren't going to be traumatised by anything, they'll be relishing the gossip. We spoke about all sorts of scandals with no particular emotion when I was at school, and my stepchildren do the same. I imagine they'll have some sort of assembly (which most of them will think is pointless).

They will see that the consequence for committing murder is going to prison. Why would they misbehave and use this teacher as an example? He is being punished in line with what he's done. Kids will also be punished for school misdemeanours in line with they've done. They'll forget about it entirely in a month.

Your daughter was unlikely in remotely any danger with this man, so I wouldn't encourage her to dine out on the solo detention story tbh.

Any one of the many people you bump into on a daily basis might have committed or might go on to to commit all sorts of atrocities. That's just life, unfortunately.

There is no "solution". You can't predict who may or may not commit a crime. Anyone is capable of snapping in a fit of rage, having a mental breakdown or indeed planning to kill someone - including teens.

We can try to predict it. It’s why we bother collecting crime statistics.

It’s interesting to see some on mumsnet leaping to the defence of a man who tried to kill a woman… just because he is a teacher. Including earlier pondering about why he had mental health problems and linking it with being a poor teacher (who I’m sure, poor lamb, was driven to knife a woman in the neck).

I guess that’s why the bad ones are attracted to the profession. They know many will fall over themselves to show how progressive they are, how they’d never suspect them of any ulterior motives, never ever.

My dgs’s headmaster was arrested the first week that dgs started secondary.
Dgs was beyond excited to ring and tell me.

What is worrying about dg’s head is that he’d been accused and found guilty by the governors of bullying teachers, however he was allowed to stay on.
Then he was filmed grabbing a pupil by their collar, nothing was done.
He finally is being investigated for sexual activity with a girl 13 - 15.

He obviously ruled by fear including the governors.

It’s awful and shocking that this happened but this man does not represent teachers as a whole and you can’t refer to “these people” to include an attempted murderer together with other teachers who are, well, not murderers.

Does Lucy Letby represent all nurses? Does Harold Shipman represent all doctors?

As PPs have said, there are horrible people (“bad apples”) in all walks of life and all professions.

I really sympathise with you and your daughter in this incredibly shocking situation Bottomofthebarrel, and I can certainly understand the need to post this, as part of trying to process it.
But I'm a bit worried that information here about an identifiable person who may eventually go to trial might create problems during the trial process, even if it is quite slight info. It will be important to take care of what is said, and I wonder if it might even be worth asking MN to take it down once you have got what you need from it. xxx
Once again my sympathies for a shocking situation

Murder is the classic 'out of character' offence. It is just as likely to be committed by someone who has never been in trouble before as by a hardened criminal.

Sure, but we can't ban men from teaching/caring professions unless we're happy for women to pick up the slack. I certainly am not willing to shoulder the burden of all the shit jobs.

While most violent sexual predators are men, most men aren't violent sexual predators.

You can gather all the data you like, after the fact, but I don't see how you'd apply it to the screening of teachers.

I'm not defending anyone for killing anyone. I'm just saying the students likely don't give a fuck, beyond having something to talk about for a week or two.

Male violence has always been and is always going to be a problem, unless they're all castrated or we find a Minority Report way to predict future crimes. There's a limit to what can be done to prevent it. Obviously if obvious things have been missed or ignored along the way woth this man, then that should be investigated.

The best we can do is try to raise boys who know that violence is not a solution to problems, and girls who are aware of the dangers of domestic violence and how to guard their personal safety.

Mental health provision in this country could also really do with some serious help.

OP you cannot say anything negative about teachers on mumsnet

Clearly, some of the responses on this thread! Teachers are human too, because it’s normal for humans to stab each other? The kids will be loving the drama 🧐

Domestic violence is very commonplace.
One in four women are abused by their partners.
There are so many thousands of teachers statistically hundreds of them will be domestic abusers.
Domestic abuse tend to build up from control to more minor violence to serious violence like this. 2 women a week are murdered by their partners.

It's highly likely that he committed domestic abuse prior to this event as it is very unusual to go from zero to attempting murder.

However his partner or exes were probably too scared to report him due to the police being so untrustworthy/incompetent.

So nothing on the police check. Or they did check and considered domestic offences/allegations not serious enough to prevent him being a teacher.

Don't assume anyone is safe around you/your DCs.

Agreed - 'a domestic issue' of attempted murder!

Why are so many posters assuming that the bloke 'had mental health issues'?

Maybe he was a nasty bully who treated pupils in a similar way that he treated his partner/girlfriend?

The OP is getting a very hard time on here, when it is a shocking event that will impact to some extent on her daughter.

Why are so many posters assuming that the bloke 'had mental health issues'?

Ive never seen so much defending

The kids will absolutely be loving the drama! 100%.

The point people are making is that teachers are just people. They aren't some separate sub category held in high esteem. They're just regular people with a job, who have passed a DBS check. They're no less likely to be paedophiles or murderers than anyone else out there.

We have a lot of teachers on MN and they are extremely defensive - aboout everything. Quite unable to be agreeable or receive feedback/criticsm.

I am sorry you haven’t received empathy on here. I would be absolutely horrified too. Can you speak to a counsellor about it? The trust and safety will be gone in the school.

As for male power trippers? Absolutely. I remember them from my own school days. Frustrated little men taking their resentments out on the kids.

indeed.

The point people are making is that teachers are just people. They aren't some separate sub category held in high esteem. They're just regular people with a job, who have passed a DBS check. They're no less likely to be paedophiles or murderers than anyone else out there.

I think the point many are making is that the OP should just get over it which to me is weird.

Im not a teacher and have no loyalty to them as a profession but posters are simply stating that you can’t tar an entire profession of tens of thousands of people based on the actions of one man. In relation to the OP (which I suspect is more about gossiping than it is about fearing that the other teachers will now have lost respect in the school).

Sure, you could get some amazing but imperfect Minority Report style vetting system working who might have tendencies to commit crimes in the future but how realistic is that? Would you take the test at 18 before you started your training? Or when you are applying for a job after spending thousands on your teaching qualification to find that because they way you answer a couple of questions you are now unemployable.

Humans do terrible things. They also work in every profession. Many do not commit (or get convicted of/reported for) a single crime until the day they murder or rape someone.

The whole premise of this thread and how it might reflect on teaching or the school is bizarre. The only way the school might have some culpability is if they knew that he was becoming a risk and did nothing to act on it.

but posters are simply stating that you can’t tar an entire profession of tens of thousands of people based on the actions of one man

The police/WC threads tend to go a bit differently though

Ohh how sensitive and defensive of us snowflake teachers not wanting to be lumped in with an attempted murderer

No it it the behaviour of the less intelligent ones rather than normal.

Anyway apparently she will have a great career in the police because she can already spot a wrong 'un.

Your whole opening post is ridiculous and sounds like the sort of conversation that is no doubt at being had at the school gates amongst those with nothing better to talk about.

I think there's a distinct difference.

The issues people have with the police aren't that individual police officers commit awful crime.

It's the fact that culture has supported them. That groups of police officers are acting in disgusting ways and not even hiding it. The covering up accusations of serious crimes. Its the culture of the Police.

If a police officer committed a crime and the police force hadn't been turning a blind eye, then you could compare the 2.

Maybe it is like that with schools. I do t work in one so don't know. But schools and LAs arent all over the news for ignoring criminal behaviour committed by their teachers. That's why its different.

Oh I know unfortunately.

Ohh how sensitive and defensive of us snowflake teachers not wanting to be lumped in with an attempted murderer

I certainly don’t think it’s common for teachers to behave like this & wouldn’t lump them all together but I can still acknowledge the OP rather than lambast her for daring to even start the thread.

Bullying of teachers by SLT is normal. Bullying of teachers by parents and children is accepted. A culture which disrespects teachers destroys good behaviour and encourages bad. So it goes.