Teacher arrested for attempted murder

[Bottomofthebarrel]

This week a teacher at my DD’s secondary school was arrested for attempted murder. He stabbed a woman in the head and neck in broad daylight, and I believe he was only unsuccessful in killing her because other people intervened. She is in a critical condition in hospital, so he could be looking at a murder charge. This has all been in the news, including the BBC.

This man was teaching my own child until very recently. She was given an after school detention by him for being very slightly late to his lesson, and the detention was just him and her sat in a room. That sends shivers down my spine now. I can’t get the whole thing out of my head.

This must be so disturbing for all the kids at the school. I feel that the school are potentially going to struggle more with behaviour control from now on - this man was employed as one of their role models so I can’t help but feel they’ve lost the moral high ground. Not to mention the effect on those who are in their exam years and are now minus a subject teacher.

How the fuck does someone like that become a teacher? I must say in the last 9 years since my DC started secondary, I’ve come across a few - all of them male - teachers who have got my back up and seem to be definite ‘power tripping know it all’ types, and not particularly bright to boot. There’s another male teacher in another local school who was in the news, having to pay £200,000 damages to his neighbour after a childish bullying campaign which went on for years.

Is this the best we can do? I get teaching isn’t the most attractive profession, but it actually terrifies me that these people are supposed to be guiding and leading our children, sometimes on a one to one basis. My worry is that with the current shortage of teachers, and desperation to fill vacancies, the standards are going to sink even lower.

This isn’t a general teacher bashing thread, there are many truly wonderful ones out there, and I know it’s an incredibly difficult job. Just feeling very shaken by what has happened this week. My DD really didn’t like this man and I assumed it was her being a stroppy teen, now I feel awful for not taking her seriously.

We do expect a higher standard of behaviour from those who have vulnerable people in their care ( teachers, nurses, doctors , care work

I expect that nobody should murder anyone. I think that’s a fairly basic expectation of my fellow humans. I don’t expect teachers to murder any ‘less’ than a hairdresser. I don’t expect the hairdresser to kill either. We are not talking about unpaid parking fines here, this is the mode serious of crimes.

It's made very clear when doing safeguarding training in schools that no matter how many safeguarding procedures are in place you cannot rule out anything happening, you can only try and reduce the possibility.

Yes teachers are usually held to a higher standard in their behaviour, but surely no-one gives a person stabbing someone a free pass because they are in a profession that doesn't have such high expectations of behaviour

This you?

What this teacher did is awful however it was in his personal life and not his work environment

Yes, every child does have a story about one of their teachers because male violence and abuse is so prevalent, it's normalised. What I don't expect is for a forum full of mothers and a space where women who are still carrying trauma from experience of violence and abuse to be 'oh well, it's just his private life, nothing to do with the kids. Move on and chill out.'

‘Honestly the kids are probably loving it. We had something like this at my school when I was a teen and it was like the best gossip we’d ever heard.’

How on earth it this a ‘cool girl’ comment? It’s about teens and how they are likely to respond to a story like this. Most will treat it as gossip and revel in the drama and then chat at home about how awful a crime it is. They won’t all suddenly think the school condones it and go off the rails. I imagine some teens might even sympathise with the school.

It was a reasonable comment about teen behaviour. You thinking it’s cool girl behaviour to mention that is rather strange.

That just simply isn't true.

There are DBS checks . 'Literally anyone' could not stand in front of your child.

And if you mean, 'literally anyone of any intelligence' (which you seem to) there is no correlation between type of university degree and propensity to violence or vicious attack. (and , by the by, since we have gone off to anecdata I am sure the teachers in the boarding schools who are guilty of historic abuse were very highly educated : again not relevant )

You may not intend to sound like you are saying that. In which case , conversations about the academic calibre of teaching entrants is emphatically for another thread.

How the fuck did Harold Shipman become a doctor?
Lucy letby a nurse?
Wayne Couzens a policeman?

A lot of teachers are leaving because they are burned out too much is expected from them for so little. Many people have said why should they receive more money if results are poor.

Some of them enter teaching because they don't know what to do after their degree. They haven't planned to become teachers.

The education system is next to be scrutinised.

I knew of a teacher who was prosecuted for having indecent images of children. He passed screening because he hadn't been in trouble for anything prior to that. If he hadn't been caught he'd probably still have been teaching children and indulging in goodness knows what in his spare time.

I might be wrong but I thought this thread was about the distress a parent felt in discovering that an attempted murderer was in a position of responsibility with her child ( including at times being alone in a room with her) . Why are people so insistent on saying this is no more distressing than finding out a hairdresser or shop worker had attempted murder? Obviously all are disturbing - but teachers are with your children EVERY day and their behaviour provides a model of appropriate adult behaviour to pupils.

So teachers are on the list of professions that have killed : doctors, nurses, priests, police officers, lawyers, bankers,solicitors……….

You might also want to remember OP that some teachers have been killed by pupils. Who takes the moral high ground in that situation I wonder.

their behaviour provides a model of appropriate adult behaviour to pupils.

And there are still lots of other teachers who haven't stabbed anyone who can be used as role models.

I used to teach in secondary schools & came across some very dubious male teachers during that time. Some were just not very bright, some were really odd & their behaviour on school trips was awful & creepy. It isn’t hard to get onto teacher training because they’re so desperate for teachers!

I wonder if more teachers are attacked by pupils than the number of teachers who attack other people

I suspect that there are schools up and down the country who have lost teachers because of their behaviour.

Of course, stabbing someone is very much on the extreme end of things but I can think of at least two who were fired for inappropriate behaviour around pupils - one involved corporal punishment and the other selling drugs behind the art block.

@NamelessNancy No, I'm not minimising the awful attack on a woman for a second.

But demonising an entire profession for the actions of one individual is absurd. Did we stop visiting GPs after Shipman?
I'm saying that adult reactions to the incident, IN FRONT OF CHILDREN, need to be calm, logical and reassuring to minimise the impact.

The OP didn't jus say that though. If she had stopped at saying she was concerned for her DD and her reaction then she'd get sympathy because it is indeed very shocking (and rare)

Sha also said

'so I can’t help but feel they’ve lost the moral high ground' (ie the whole school)

and generalised this attempted murder out to other male teachers - basically accusing them of being the same type of person (ie a potential murderer) because they are a bit aggressive (in her perception) in a role. She then added ^they weren't very bright to boot' , as if that somehow is pertinent...

She also mentioned a nearby , completely unconnected and different case to make her point.

The BBC did not mention the man's profession, the local radio put al their focus on tis, rather than on the crime and the victim's condition, seeking sensationalism. This media focus will definitely distract the children.

And, yes, in all that the OP seems fairly unconcerned about the victim.

I have met some fantastic teachers who have been very supportive. I have also met teachers who have been dismissive. If I did nothing at home with my children I wouldn't like to think of what the outcome could have been.

@FrownedUpon sadly not only in secondary schools. I once taught in a primary school with a man in his 50s - very geeky looking, family man etc. As I was the newbie, a couple of others asked "Has Henry groped you in the art cupboard yet?" Seemingly it was some sort of rite of passage for any new teachers and was just accepted in 1984.

A quick google of my old school also shows that a female teacher was very recently fired and banned from teaching after it was revealed that she had sex with a pupil in her car.

The incident happened 10 years ago and she continued to teach until late last year.

Where has anyone leapt to his defence?

I have been teaching for 30 years and it has never happened in any schools I have worked in. It is extremely rare (thank God). Two teachers at my DS's school, left fairly forcibly both regarding incidents outside of school. One of these was basic homophobia dressed up as concern.

This thread is stoking paranoia.

I don't think it's as rare as we like to pretend it is.

Lots of crimes never really make the papers and it's very easy to brush things under the carpet and pretend Mr so-and-so is off sick or Mrs X had to leave suddenly because of a family emergency.

There are 1.5 million people working in schools, statistically you are going to get some who commit crimes, no matter what safeguarding procedures are in place.

How is this the schools fault?
18years ago there was an horrific murder of a year 7 child by a year 10child who both attended the same s school.I went to ( admittedly years,after I lef) and my nephews subsequently attended
I don doubt the students there at the time were traumatized by it but was in no way the schools fault
.

How the hell do you know what the impact will be to the children? On pupils already struggling with anxiety and stress. It’s an horrendous situation, stop minimising!!

@Newchapterbeckons well, it didn't happen in the college, and (as far as we're aware) he doesn't have previous for harming children. It's also highly likely that his victim is a current or former romantic partner, which is often the case, so his MO is not attacking pupils. Plus a fair few posters have said how shocking event at their school when they were children didn't traumatise anyone, it was exciting gossip.

So although the pupils may be shocked, I actually think it does more harm than good to assume they'll be affected and doing the "Oh god darling, isn't it awful. And to think you were in the same room as him!" How do you feel about that? Would you like counselling?" routine. Possibly what would help those already struggling with their MH would be to help stop them navel-gazing rather than assume they need support, and to highlight the prevalence of male on female violence in romantic relationships instead if they must. Highlight it wasn't a teacher on pupil attack, and to centre the victim rather than themselves.