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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this workplace discrimination?

176 replies

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 15:14

Posting for advice as I'm struggling to make sense of this and whether it's OK or not.

My partner is a public sector employee. He often works a lot of overtime shifts which are essential for paying the household bills. Without the overtime our family would struggle. It's always available so that's not an issue and never has been. He works an average of 60-80 hours a month of overtime on top of his contracted hours.

He very, very rarely cancels an overtime shift. I can count on one hand the number of times he's done this in the past couple years, and it's only ever been when our toddler has been unwell and my partner and I have had to juggle the days off between us (I also work).

The past week or so he's booked 4 overtime shifts, 3 of which there were no issues with, and one he had to cancel with only a few hours notice because our 2 year old started to vomit and had become quite unwell (doctor had already seen her earlier that day but she deteriorated by the time it got to a few hours before his overtime shift).

Today he has spoken with one of the senior staff at his work who have given him a 'warning' that if it happens again that he needs to cancel overtime at short notice, they will place him on an "overtime ban".

Can they do this?? He is a very reliable employee with a strong track record of showing up for overtime he books. He very rarely cancels shifts, and on the odd occasion he has it's because our child is unwell and I'd been unable to take anymore carers leave myself. He would never just cancel because he'd changed his mind and couldn't be bothered. He has a very strong work ethic etc.

I just don't know what they expect him to do when he has a young child to consider too? Is it not discrimination to punish someone with a "ban" on overtime because they've had to unexpectedly cancel one shift in probably hundreds he's booked and worked over the past year??

I'm just so angry at this punitive response from his work and the lack of support for a working parent with a sick child
.

Any advice welcome.

OP posts:
TruthThatsHardAsSteel · 01/03/2024 17:45

StarlightLime · 01/03/2024 15:57

Nonsense. He has no automatic right to overtime.

All that jabber, pretending he's acting on strong legal advice will just make him look like a complete idiot.

Totally agree.

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 17:52

BobbyBiscuits · 01/03/2024 17:43

@overtimeban Does it seem to be specifically child sickness he takes a distrust to? Could DH tell a white lie and say he personally was unwell?
It is not a long term solution but to see if the boss reacts differently? Though I would accept the fact you have a better childcare flexibility from your employer and try and use that, they sound way more sympathetic. You could ask them to extend your 'leave' if need be?

Personal sickness is also frowned upon. My partner's colleague got a "warning" for his first ever episode of sickness since starting in post 3 years prior, after he broke his wrist during an accident and his hand was in a cast. It's not the type of job you can do with your hand in a cast as it's very physical. So colleague had no choice but to be off work, his boss told him he couldn't be there as it wasn't safe. He returned to work when his hand was out of the cast, to a "formal warning" meeting about his sickness absence. If he has more than 1 more in the next 12 months, they'll dismiss him.

So yeah, they're not going to take kindly to sickness either.

OP posts:
SpecialBreak · 01/03/2024 17:52

I would argue that the policy of banning overtime is at risk of being a discriminatory policy, it puts people with caring responsibilities (and other disabilities that might require time off) at a disadvantage. Treating all employees the same is NOT treating them equally

Love51 · 01/03/2024 17:55

ChessieFL · 01/03/2024 15:19

It might be unfair but it’s not discrimination. Discrimination means being treated differently due to a
protected characteristic and being a parent is not a protected characteristic.

That's the definition of illegal discrimination. Not all discrimination is illegal.

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 17:56

SpecialBreak · 01/03/2024 17:52

I would argue that the policy of banning overtime is at risk of being a discriminatory policy, it puts people with caring responsibilities (and other disabilities that might require time off) at a disadvantage. Treating all employees the same is NOT treating them equally

I think this is possibly where I was going with it when I used the phrase in my OP.

OP posts:
Lifebeganat50 · 01/03/2024 17:57

weirdoboelady · 01/03/2024 15:49

I would write to the manager concerned something like the following

Dear Mr Stupid-Unreasonable

On [date} I had to cancel a scheduled overtime shift to cope with a sudden caring emergency. Your response was to threaten not to allow me any more overtime.

I feel I should point out to you that this is the first shift I have had to cancel in x years. I should also point out to you the fact that the Working Time Directive already states that carers are allowed leave to cope with caring emergencies, and the Carer’s Leave Act 2023, which comes into force next month, will strengthen these rights.

I would understand your threat better if I was someone who had regularly let the company down on overtime shifts, but if you take the time to consult the departmental records you will see that despite my caring responsibilities I am one of the very best and most reliable employees. I will continue to exercise full responsibility in attending scheduled overtime unless there is an emergency, but I should notify you that I will take any attempt to penalise me for exercising my statutory rights as a carer very seriously, and I will have no hesitation on acting on the strong legal advice I have been given.

Send an email like this and he’ll find himself at the back of the queue when the OT is being dished out any manager will piss their pants laughing at this!

I work with someone like your OH…they think that because they put themselves up for a lot of overtime, they’re entitled to it before anyone else, and theirs their toys out of the pram if they don’t get it ( also public sector )

Just take it on the chin, you’re being ridiculous now

EmmaEmerald · 01/03/2024 17:58

@overtimeban "They're constantly sending messages on his days off begging for staff to do overtime shifts. That's pretty consistent."

I had a feeling you'd say that. The same organisation will do that and then complain about how hard it is to get staff!

One option is just keep quiet to avoid rocking the boat, but as it's public sector, I'd talk to the union. It is likely a meaningless threat, but what you've said about the chap who broke his wrist strikes me as...must be breaking a rule? Unless they normally make threats if someone is off sick.

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 18:00

@EmmaEmerald
They give anyone with a first episode of sickness a "formal warning", and inform that any more than 1 more episode in 12 months you're looking at dismissal.

OP posts:
StarlightLime · 01/03/2024 18:00

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 17:56

I think this is possibly where I was going with it when I used the phrase in my OP.

Your dh does not have "caring responsibilities" over and above being a parent, op.

Underwatersally · 01/03/2024 18:02

When you say he does 40-60 hours a month on top of his shifts I’m assuming he’s working full time and then potentially up to 20 hours a week on top of that?

I work in public sector and my employer wouldn’t really allow this tbh, as a one off for a couple of weeks maybe but consistently over a number of years I can imagine in being an issue.

It may be that the manager believes (rightly or wrongly) he cannot work up to 240 hours a month and maintain the same standards of work without burning out.

It could be that other staff are annoyed your dh is getting all the extra shifts or the enhanced rate shifts and they don’t get a look in, so are moaning to the managers about this.

Staff may have complained when he didn’t turn up last minute and they were unable to get any further help for a busy shift.

Where I work if an agency / bank / overtime worker doesn’t turn up at less than 2 hours notice they aren’t allowed any other shifts for two weeks. Usually when overtime is offered it’s because we are on skeleton staff anyway so no shows can be really hard to manage.

It might be a one off for your dh but I imagine anyone missing the shift at last minute notice would’ve been told the same.

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 18:03

I work with someone like your OH…they think that because they put themselves up for a lot of overtime, they’re entitled to it before anyone else, and theirs their toys out of the pram if they don’t get it ( also public sector )

Erm..... what is this bullshit you've just made up? 🙄

My partner is nothing like that! This isn't about feeling "entitled" to overtime or throwing toys out because he can't get any, ffs. It's about his employer being completely unsympathetic to a genuine childcare emergency, which is a very rare occurrence for him, and penalising him for needing that time at the last minute when he is otherwise a very reliable employee.

Stop making shit up,

OP posts:
overtimeban · 01/03/2024 18:06

@Underwatersally
Trust me this particular employer don't care much for employee wellbeing so I doubt they're bothered about the amount of overtime anyone is doing, so long as the shifts are staffed. I've seen enough over the years about his employer to know this.

OP posts:
StarlightLime · 01/03/2024 18:08

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 18:06

@Underwatersally
Trust me this particular employer don't care much for employee wellbeing so I doubt they're bothered about the amount of overtime anyone is doing, so long as the shifts are staffed. I've seen enough over the years about his employer to know this.

This shift probably wasn't staffed, with the notice your dh gave. That's an issue.

BobbyBiscuits · 01/03/2024 18:08

@overtimeban In that case his employers are pure dicks.
I feel like he should be in a Union? Is he?
He could speak to ACAS.
Still I am not sure they can call it 'discrimination' as boss just seems to be a twat to everyone.

EmmaEmerald · 01/03/2024 18:10

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 18:00

@EmmaEmerald
They give anyone with a first episode of sickness a "formal warning", and inform that any more than 1 more episode in 12 months you're looking at dismissal.

Hopefully the union fight against this shit. Absolutely shocking. Is it an area where there's shortages?

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 18:10

BobbyBiscuits · 01/03/2024 18:08

@overtimeban In that case his employers are pure dicks.
I feel like he should be in a Union? Is he?
He could speak to ACAS.
Still I am not sure they can call it 'discrimination' as boss just seems to be a twat to everyone.

Yes he's in a union.

OP posts:
overtimeban · 01/03/2024 18:11

@EmmaEmerald yes it's in a sector that struggles for staff at times.

OP posts:
PostItInABook · 01/03/2024 18:11

This is standard policy in the ambulance service (not sure what your DH does) and applies across the board. If someone cancels an OT shift at short notice it usually means we’re down a crew/ambulance/conveying resource, which is a real pain in the bum, especially on night shifts as cover is reduced then anyway. Cancelling will get you a warning about the policy and possible short term OT ban. More cancelling will result in the ban being enforced.

Also, re sickness. There’ll be a sickness management policy which details the stages of management. I doubt very much you have got your info right tbh. Your DH needs to read the policies that might impact him.

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 18:23

@PostItInABook
My info re sickness is correct, I know many people in the industry, trust me on that.

OP posts:
overtimeban · 01/03/2024 18:23

It's not the ambulance service either

OP posts:
Theworldismadness · 01/03/2024 18:27

Does he work full time with 15-20 hours per week overtime on top? That's not sustainable surely?

TeenyTinyCrocodile · 01/03/2024 18:32

As others have said, it's hard to see how this might be discrimination relating to a protected characteristic, unless others are treated differently so it is by extension age or sex discimination, say.

It might well be bullying, though - if he's been singled out for a single infringement (taken for a good reason, and not just 'not turning up') with an otherwise perfect record, against others who have not been singled out for this or more. Although he hasn't been banned from overtime yet, just warned, as some have said. Whether this warning was applied fairly, is another question.

He should read the policy documents related to the issue, and get union advice ASAP.

But OP, it's a really really bad idea to be relying on effectively that 5th week per month to survive financially, and to have such difficulties with childcare when your DC is sick (or the nursery/school is shut for some reason at short notice, etc.). I hope you have some insurance in place to cover loss of salary, it sounds as though you could be in dire trouble really quickly as a family should something major happen. So I think you two need to work out a long term life strategy that has more slack in it both financially and time and childcarewise.

fetchacloth · 01/03/2024 19:36

Laurama91 · 01/03/2024 15:41

I was always taught not to rely on overtime. What if overtime goes? How would you manage then?

The same thing (overtime ban) happened in my previous workplace during the 2008-2010 recession and caused real issues for people financially dependent on getting the overtime.
Some of those people were forced to seek better paid work elsewhere if they could find it, or take on a second job 😒

CarrotOfPeace · 01/03/2024 20:48

It seems fair enough. They need people to commit to the overtime. Could be there are others who wanted the shift.

I think he needs a new job with more pay so you aren't so reliant on the income

Aprilx · 01/03/2024 21:06

overtimeban · 01/03/2024 15:52

This is very helpful, thank you!

It isn’t helpful. He will look very stupid if he sent that.