Making kids choose 'teams' for PE - assumed this was an old fashioned thing?

[Devicey]

But told today that it happens every week at DCs primary.

Honestly thought this was something I have just seen on films and assumed wasn't done anymore?

Always similar kids left to the last couple that no one wants on their team.

AIBU or are there far better ways to divide up a class of kids for PE?

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I was always one of the last picks so I get that it can be hurtful. But it did always make for evenly balanced teams, and I learned not to out my self worth on being chosen. I just wasn't that good at PE. It wasn't the end of the world.

Arguments based on the real world, teaching resilience etc are atrocious. I saw one in the Guardian once which said bullying was OK because it established the pecking order for adult life, and I've seen something like that above. Of course, we aren't chickens. Do you know what happens to the hen at the bottom of the pecking order? She has no feathers, been pecked out, can't eat enough, driven from the food, is no good to the farmer. It is not a thing to emulate, and those putting it forward as something to encourage aren't expecting to have to learn their place, and resilience themselves, They expect to be the rooster on the dunghill. Resilience is for others. Snowflakes as Phoebe called them.
Not chickens or snowflakes, but humans to be respected.

I hated pe at school for that reason, it’s cruel and really knocks confidence. My son is currently yr 1 and the teacher allocated them to a team, don’t know if this changes further up the school

@JustDiscoveredBueno From what I can tell from my DC, the changes are very patchy. Some teachers try to pass on skills and to explain, most seem to just leave the kids to it.

FWIW even the kids who were good at sport got no guidance or strategy (or were even told to join a specialist club etc). Whether we won or not seemed to be left up to fate or 'natural ability'. (Maybe some kids had interested parents and that helped them along, but I don't think that was the norm when I was younger.)

Doesn't make much difference how they are divided up the socio mix still prevails. If you asked the so called left overs to to do the actual choosing that wouldnt been seen as 'right' either would it??!

I didn't care about being picked first. I just wanted to not be actively and vocally UNWANTED every single week. No where in adult life should anyone be saying to another adult "we don't want her you take her".
Remember this isn't about choosing teams for professional games etc.
Say in adult life you go for a job interview and don't get it. You (should) get a letter or phone call explaining you were unsuccessful. It's normally very polite. That's fine. Things happen. You brush yourself and move on. What you don't get is the recruiter actively laughing in your face saying no way are we going to employ you! Then another random job department agreeing they don't want you either! While they both laugh back and forth with each other about how awful you are.
Same with trying out for a sports team as a child. You try out. You don't get picked. Usually the coach (or maybe your parent if they've been told first) will tell you kindly you didn't make it this time and maybe if you practice next time you will. You might be upset for a while but yes normally some failures explained kindly are to be expected in life.
Weekly humiliation and being laughed at is not something I think I benefitted from.

I was always last to be picked. It got to the stage where I would mentally work out which team had the misfortune of being the one to have to pick me and just go and stand there as soon as the first name was called. I did get told by the teacher once not to do that but I replied with "what's the point? I'm only going to end up here anyway so I might as well pretend I was picked 1st". From then on the teacher would pick the teams.

Would you tolerate, as an adult, being forced into an activity that you don’t enjoy just to be laughed at, excluded, and mocked every single week? I don’t expect you would. It’s in no way okay to do this to children who deserve to feel safe at school. They can compete and be picked or not be picked at activities they have an interest in. Anyway, you’re overlooking all the children who happen to be good at sports but perhaps not good at things one actually needs in a world of work. How shall we give those children the “good grounding” in ritual humiliation that you think they need based on no research or wisdom whatsoever?

SIGH. Again, why are we only “building resilience” in kids who are not good at sports? How are we “building resilience” in kids who are good at sports but shit at maths/art/english? Why do those kids not get to benefit from your completely unsupported nonsense idea that ritual humiliation “builds resilience”?

That’s terrible!

I honestly didn’t think this was still practiced nowadays! We didn’t even do that back in “my day”. (Except for primary school, actually. Now that I’m thinking about it!🤔🤔)

The reality is that in the real world the kids who are doing the picking and mocking at school are no more likely to be more resilient or successful in life. In my anecdotal experience it’s been the exact opposite! The quieter, ‘uncool’ kids from my school are by and large way more successful than the sporty/popular kids now. One of the worst bullies in my school (good at sport, loved the “pecking order”) has been in and out of prison ever since. The idea that any brand of school mandated exclusion, mocking, bullying, humiliation, are necessary or beneficial to any child, wherever they fall on the “pecking order” is obvious nonsense.

The lesson for me (reasonably popular but crap at all sports) was, eventually, that PE is a totally unimportant undertaking that had zero impact on the rest of my life.

So, I chose to bunk off PE once I hit 15 or so and worked very hard at my O and A levels. I often ran into the sporty popular kids working in shops when I came home for the university holidays. Turns out some abilities are rather more important than others!

Quite. I left school very well equipped to succeed “in the real world” with all A’s at A level and prizes for drama and languages. Funny enough I’ve never had to put ritual humiliation experience on my CV or raise it at an interview. In fact, dare I say it, it didn’t help me “in the real world” at all. I don’t believe it helped the kids who were doing the bullying either, just for the record. Looks like we could have skipped it with no ill effects whatsoever but a net positive effect on the self esteem and comfort of thousands of children. Fancy that!

I have done this on occasion to check the dynamics of the class but normally choose them myself to encourage inclusion.

To clarify, this isn't specifically for PE as I don't teach it, but for any other activity involving teams or groups.

At my kids primary, they are placed in a house (diff colours) before they even start school and that’s their sports teams for the whole of primary and also grouping for different experiments etc in the classrooms

reading etc is done split into ability groups they have different for them

I’m a teacher of ten years and I’ve never done it and never seen anyone do it but had it done at secondary. Don’t think I’ve ever thought about it since. You have to be made of harder stuff if this type of thing gets to you.
also, typically, she’s taking her kid’s word for it. Never wise.
Finally, that’s how sport works in RL - the best get chosen.

I was very athletic in school ans was always the first or second pick. It sucked even when I was in that role. I coach kids and adults in few different activities and that is never how I make up a team even with adults.

My goto is have everyone go in a line based on something. Alphabetical order based on middle name, height, second number of birthday etc. Something random. Then divide the teams somewhat equally (either 1-2 method or splitting in half or some variation). Appears random as it is to some extend but can still control that they are equal or separate those who should be separated.

I work in primary schools and have seen it happen at some but not others. I remember when I was at school the same children were always left until last and must have felt horrible.
I think the best method is when the teacher goes down the line and just gives everyone a number and that's what team they are in. Although sometimes all the best just end up on the same team by coincidence so that's not perfect either.

No how sport works in real life is people who are interested in playing a sport practice it then try out for a team. If they're not good enough the coach will explain that and the person will either go back to practicing or just playing for fun.
No where in real life sport would i be forced to stand at try outs for a game I have zero interest in and don't even know how to play. And other team members would not be forced to have me on their team.
If the teacher had at any point said to me "Actually you're not very interested in playing this are you? And also not that good. Would you prefer to go to an extra maths lesson?" I would have jumped at the chance.
I did not want to be there. Others did not want me there. Yet I was forced to be there. That is not how real life sport works.

In fact, I would have preferred to just sit on the edge and watch than be forced onto a team that didn't want me. I wouldn't actually have minded if the teacher said "would you rather sit this game out seeing as you don't like it?"
Being left out through a choice is much preferable to being humiliated.

@Josienpaul

“You have to be made of harder stuff if this type of thing gets to you.” - School shouldn’t require children to be made of “harder stuff”. It’s not the military. Or prison. It is really okay for some kids to be sensitive and not tough as nails. We don’t need to be churning out mini Kray Brothers thanks.

“Finally, that’s how sport works in RL - the best get chosen.” - And? The best are chosen for whatever they put themselves forward for “in RL”. We don’t get forced to put ourselves forward for things we don’t enjoy or don’t like. We typically don’t get ridiculed and mocked publicly either “in RL”. Do you think we should be forcing the sporty kids who are crap at other subjects to be publicly humiliated for their own good too? Is it just the kids who aren’t sporty that get this remarkable ‘privilege’ which is, by the way, completely unsupported by any scientific research?

Depressing to see so many “teachers” 🤡 on this thread who don’t give a fuck about the mental health of children ffs.

Exactly! People like @Josienpaul acting like “real life” requires every adult to try out for sports teams constantly. Have they experienced real life? 😂 The reality is that in real life you don’t have to ever play a sport unless you fancy it and if you do you’re either pro level anyway or chances are you’ll be made to feel welcome and certainly not mocked, excluded, and ridiculed every week for months on end.

On the other hand, in real life, you probably will need to use some of the skills you learn in other subjects which don’t require the public ritual humiliation of children. It’s such a sincerely stupid argument. Depressing to see a teacher making it.

It's one of my worst memories from school and I've never done a team sport since I left.

I was always picked last. I’ve never been turned down for a promotion though. Probably because I don’t apply for promotions as a professional sportswoman. Do you? It seems like you think this crazily rare career path is super common!

“Better” at team sports means just that and only that. It literally has no value or impact on anything else in life, least of all a child’s future promotion prospects (?!) yes skills and capabilities matter in the real world. But those useful real world skills and capabilities that employers value are hardly ever about sport! Be for real! Certainly I’ve never once had call to use any P.E ‘skills’ in the workplace. The reality is that we all choose which direction in life to pursue based on our individual skills and capabilities and 99% of the time those directions aren’t sports related, but of course you do actually know this. No one is asking any adult to score a goal at a job interview, unless trying out for Man Utd.

In my case one of the girls who was “better” at sports - in fact she was the best, she should be prime minister now by your reckoning - ended up in prison at 19/20 and has been in and out ever since. I don’t think allowing kids to be bullied by her or condoning her to bully them helped anybody, least of all her. I think the real world was a shock for her actually, much more than for us kids who had talents elsewhere other than sports and have done alright thanks very much.