Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is anyone worried about their council going bust?

168 replies

PassingStranger · 28/02/2024 16:38

It was on the news this morning that alot of councils are very close to going bust.
Services are having to be cut again and council tax going up?

What would happen if your council went bust?
Is there a way to find out how your council is doing?
Anyone worried like me? Xx

OP posts:
sleepyscientist · 28/02/2024 19:11

PassingStranger · 28/02/2024 17:32

Very interesting thanks.

Leisure Centres are so needed. People keep fit there and it's good for mental health too.
If they close people's fitness etc would suffer surely bringing another problem? Xx 😪

Our council run leisure centre is more expensive than the near by 5* hotel so no I don't think we need them. Even water babies have moved to a private pool it's so expensive using council services.

We are quite harsh me and DH has threshold of we will pay for a cleaner and gardener when we age. Anything else we won't be here so really begrudge paying nearly 3k for something we won't be using.

Realistically I would rather a lot less council tax but pay for our bins to be emptied when we want, have a for profit leisure centre and pay a school tax whilst DS is young. Oh yeah our estate isn't adopted either so we have that bill on top of council tax.

Pigglyplaystruant99 · 28/02/2024 19:21

I 💯 agree with you.

EmmaEmerald · 28/02/2024 19:22

My council says it's okay for two years but that's why bills have to go up - they don't think they'll be okay without the rise.

I'm wondering how citizens can object to a particular rule - which I think most councils have...all advice welcome.

Mine has just made a lot of money from a land sale. They say they are "not allowed" to spend this money on services and that council receipts from such a thing can only be spent on capital expenditure projects. They are on a mission to expand the local market, which is a huge waste of money when we have issues with basic service provision....and there's no physical space to expand the market anyway! And it's not well attended.

I was wondering how this insane rule can be challenged. I suspect it can't, because a capex project means more money into the pockets of their mates.

Hecate01 · 28/02/2024 19:25

Ours are pleading poverty but have millions in reserves. I don't think we'd notice the difference if they did go bust because they are corrupt and useless.

EmmaEmerald · 28/02/2024 19:26

My sister's council went bust a few years ago and she claims she can't see a difference....I think she can't see it directly because the cuts don't affect her and she's in Central London six days a week.

But she wouldn't know about local education, potholes, leisure facilities, so she's annoyed by the higher bill but not affected by any changes.

When I visit, I can see how much more run down it is.

Gatorpickle · 28/02/2024 19:26

But what about local oversight and local accountability?

I know that in a couple of cases, councils invested in ventures they hoped would bring in extra income but failed miserably.

EmmaEmerald · 28/02/2024 19:26

@Hecate01 good point, wonder what rules are on reserves.

helpfulperson · 28/02/2024 19:43

Many of you are talking about how much council tax you pay and rises in council tax. If you look at the income of a council less than 25% comes from council tax. The cost of providing all the services a council does is 4 times the amount you pay in council tax.

hollyblueivy · 28/02/2024 19:45

hulloplod · 28/02/2024 17:18

I work in internal audit in a large local government.
Things are dire! Not so much for my council, but across most of the country.
It's the cost of social care placements in light of inflation which seems to have been the straw that broke the camels back.

You've hit the nail on the head.

The massive proportion and majority of the money the council has to spend per year is spent on social care, leaving peanuts to manage everything else.

The social demand is not going down and the budgets are not going up.

So it seems we are in a foreseeable and inevitable position.

SoupDragon · 28/02/2024 19:46

My council already has. A year or so ago. I've not noticed a huge difference (other than a big hike in council tax)

hollyblueivy · 28/02/2024 19:47

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 28/02/2024 17:25

Our local council has just cut funding for the entire arts programme

This is the other impact we are all going to see regardless of council tax banding and revenue - any provision which is not statutory will be considered for the cut.

Cut to the bone.

DancefloorAcrobatics · 28/02/2024 19:49

Ours already went butst.
To me, it looks like they have some investment in pothole farming.

The proceeds - when they come- will hopefully go into special educational needs provision. (Currently non existing, I know 3 children who have to travel to neighbouring councils. As local school is closed due to rack concrete.)
Council is also happy to give land (green spaces) away to anyone who has a lawnmower and enough funds for fencing.

But I'm I'm not worried, after all they are in alright Jack camp, after giving themselves a little pay raise due to colc.
So things can't really that bad, or can they?

EmmaEmerald · 28/02/2024 19:54

helpfulperson · 28/02/2024 19:43

Many of you are talking about how much council tax you pay and rises in council tax. If you look at the income of a council less than 25% comes from council tax. The cost of providing all the services a council does is 4 times the amount you pay in council tax.

I think most of us know that.
But that makes me even more puzzled why they won't put money from things like sale of assets into basic services.

I'm sorry it's a soundbite, but when the country doesn't want to get the basics right - like broken bones and bin collections - you have to ask why.

The constant vanity and nonsense projects will be a large part of the bill.

In my previous council, the consultation for closing the library was just a way to line the pockets of consultants. The consultation cost about 10 x the cost of the library per year.

We also had two consultations on revamping the high street. The first one was found to have broken rules so they ran it again. Total cost - £3million.

nothing was implemented (nobody wanted it) and the proposal to resite the bus garage was (quite rightly) rejected by TFL. They wanted to have a split site so buses going the same way would be divided so you couldn't just get on the first bus going where you wanted as you'd be in the wrong place.

How does that level of idiocy get a consultation in the first place?!

hollyblueivy · 28/02/2024 19:55

EmmaEmerald · 28/02/2024 19:26

@Hecate01 good point, wonder what rules are on reserves.

Also you could have millions in reserves but realistically that may only be a few months worth of costs covered and once they are spent, there is no way of building the reserves back up again.

EmmaEmerald · 28/02/2024 19:57

hollyblueivy · 28/02/2024 19:55

Also you could have millions in reserves but realistically that may only be a few months worth of costs covered and once they are spent, there is no way of building the reserves back up again.

Even more reason not to let them pay out a fortune to consultants and architects.

it's the same as Johnson spending £60m to figure out if the Garden Bridge was a good idea - which it never was.

DontBeAPrickDarren · 28/02/2024 20:01

Gatorpickle · 28/02/2024 19:26

But what about local oversight and local accountability?

I know that in a couple of cases, councils invested in ventures they hoped would bring in extra income but failed miserably.

Part of the problem is the govt changed the funding model of LAs to make them “revenue generating” without considering whether there was the necessary expertise to do so. Councils are not businesses. Statutory duties aren’t optional.

Barring profit-making companies from delivering social care would be a start. The cost of residential placements for looked after children is eye watering, as is the cost of specialist SEND placements. Yet councils can’t open new schools to meet need unless they can get an academy sponsor to come in and do it, and then they don’t get to use half the places because the authority down the way decides it will pay more. It’s a batshit system and the amount of money pouring out into private hands is appalling.

Got2getout · 28/02/2024 20:08

Yep, I work for the council and things are bleak. Everything cut to the bone. There’s no cut backs that can be made at this stage without severely impacting provision.

Lots of noise about blaming the Tories, but Labour have been in charge of Wales for years and the situation here just as bad (or worse) than England.

Sadly we will pay for this for generations; the lack of investment in infrastructure, education, health, and social care, is causing deep rooted damage that will take decades to repair, and cost so much more in the long run.

It’s so much more than pot holes and wheelie bins.

Ineedwinenow · 28/02/2024 20:08

My council truly are cowboys so it might be beneficial for them to go bust. It doesn’t matter if Labour or Conservative are in power, they have always been shocking.

They decide when they can be arsed to empty bins, every road is undrivable, vital and non vital services have been cut, promises broken , street cleaning , planting and Christmas decorations haven’t happened for a couple of years and to be honest none of us actually know where our money or government funding is going, public buildings have all shut, support for vulnerable is difficult ( impossible ) to access so we definitely need a new council who don’t pay their bosses and minions hundreds of thousands yet provide a worse service year on year

cheerypip · 28/02/2024 20:09

Globules · 28/02/2024 18:29

R4 were discussing this matter this morning.

A LGA spokesman says 70%+ of council budgets were going on 4 things

Safeguarding children
Adult social care
Temporary housing
SEN costs of children, specifically the transportation costs to get them to and from school.

These 4 areas don't impact the majority of taxpayers. His words, they care about bins, potholes and libraries as they're the services they use.

My job means I have insight into 3 of those 4 areas. The costs, and the budgets available to these areas, staggers me. E.g. I arranged an SEN child, who isn't physically disabled, getting to and from school. The taxi fare was £25 total. Because I had to use LA approved transport, the cost was £110 total.

That can't be right. How are these tenders being accepted?

Re SEN transport. In my (rural) area there aren't enough taxis especially at peak school times, so you wouldn't have a chance of getting your £25 taxi ride at school times. So the cost goes up. Add the cost of an escort if needed and - you're right! - eye watering costs, especially if there aren't any other children travelling that way so the journey can't be shared.

If the parents are willing to provide the transport themselves, it's often much cheaper to pay their travel expenses, but of course that doesn't work for many families.

CrispsandThings · 28/02/2024 20:12

My county council was the biggest employer in our town.
It has relocated and most staff wfh.

So not only has the largest employer gone, the staff no longer visit the town. Cue loads of shop closures.

It's a really tricky situation.
Our county is rural and so it's reliant on fruit/veg pickers who are mainly Eastern European and send their wages back home.
There aren't many graduate prospects ; a recent survey showed that our county had the largest number of commutees out of the county for jobs.

Therefore there's little spend in our county and a swollen wfh culture.

We also have an unusually high proportion of people who don't work and claim benefits.
We also have a large elderly population needing support.

How is a council supposed to support this?

DontBeAPrickDarren · 28/02/2024 20:15

From the CMA review of private providers in social care:

”Second, the prices and profits of the largest providers in the sector are materially higher than we would expect them to be if this market were working well. The evidence from our core data set, covering 15 large providers, shows that these providers have been earning significant profits over a sustained period. For the children’s homes providers in our data set we have seen steady operating profit margins averaging 22.6% from 2016 to 2020, with average prices increasing from £2,977 to £3,830 per week over the period, an average annual increase of 3.5%, after accounting for inflation. In fostering, prices have been steady at an average of £820 per week, and indeed have therefore declined in real terms, but profit margins of the largest IFAs appear consistently high at an average of 19.4%.

If this market were functioning well, we would expect to see existing profitable providers investing and expanding in the market and new providers entering. This would drive down prices as local authorities would have more choice of placements, meaning that less efficient providers would have to become more efficient or exit the market, and the profits of the largest providers would be reduced. Eventually, profits and prices should remain at a lower level as providers would know that if they raised their prices they would be unable to attract placements in the face of competition. The high profits of the largest providers therefore shows that competition is not working as well as it should be.

Third, we have concerns around the resilience of the market. Our concerns are not about businesses failing per se, but about the impact that failure can have on the children in their care. Were a private provider to exit this market in a disorderly manner – for instance by getting into financial trouble and closing its facilities – children in that provider’s care could suffer harm from the disruption, especially if local authorities were unable to find alternative appropriate placements for them. Given these potential negative effects on children’s lives, the current level of risk needs to be actively managed. This is less of a concern in the case of fostering, as foster carers should be able to transfer to a new agency with minimal impact on children. It is a greater concern in the case of children’s homes, where placements may be lost altogether.
We have seen very high levels of debt being carried by some of the largest private providers, with private equity-owned providers of children’s homes in our dataset having particularly high levels. This level of indebtedness, all else being equal, is likely to increase the risk of disorderly exit of firms from the market.”

wombat15 · 28/02/2024 20:17

It's already happened to some councils.

EmmaEmerald · 28/02/2024 20:17

@DontBeAPrickDarren
That's really interesting re the funding models

So we're best advised directing these queries to local MPs, have I understood that correctly? Thank you.

i think Croydon Council went bust twice and then appointed their own mayor or something? Should be banned under corruption laws.

mammaia · 28/02/2024 20:18

aquarimum · 28/02/2024 18:28

This is a direct result of Tory policy that drastically cut funding to local governments, safe in the knowledge its arms length from Westminster blame. Shame on them.

Oh give over,

This is the result of years of mis management, by people who were not qualified to be in charge of businesses. Throwing money for years on unnecessary crap

Not to mention the billions most councils spent buying and investing in huge commercial portfolios, oversaw by people who hadn't the faintest idea of commercial property . Portfolios which have now tanked in value and these repayments are massive.

Just saying.

TeenLifeMum · 28/02/2024 20:19

Yep - council tax going up and dh likely to lose his job. The people trying to sort it out are seemingly incompetent from the meetings I’ve over heard (dh is a civil servant and exec team is unimpressive).

Swipe left for the next trending thread