Divorce lawyer - is this normal?

[Opol]

I’m going through an extremely messy divorce. We’re talking hidden assets, custody battles, false accusations, non payment of school fees etc. You name it.

My lawyer is roughly £600. So far I’ve paid him roughly £10k for his time as he’s had to respond to all the legal correspondence I’ve had from Ex.

We’re going to need to bring in an accountant in at some point but that’s a headache for another day.

I just feel really harassed regarding payment chasing. He’ll do some work then immediately demand payment for that “chunk”. I appreciate that I have to pay him for his work but it’s unbearable to be constantly harangued. Over the past month he’s said I need to do x, he does it and then immediately he’s emailing me twice daily. This has happened 3/4 times. I have paid him within a few days of each bit of work thus far.

He’s fully aware of my financial situation obviously. I’m up to date with payments never really messed him around but I feel like I’m constantly being shaken down.

My parents are having to help me as ex has emptied accounts. I will obviously pay back when divorce is finalised.

Had another email this week for payment for UPCOMING work.

I’m sick with worry.

So this is me acknowledging that I guess I have messed him around by not keeping to my word of saying I will pay by the end of Wednesday and it ended up being Thursday the payment was made.

I’m not saying I always pay the day the work is done.

Hi @Opol

I had a very long and complicated divorce, which ended up in the Family Division of the High Court. My solicitor costs were half of my barrister (£950 an hour, two full days in court). In total my legal fees were in excess of £30k.

Look on your solicitor's website for details of their payment terms. For example, mine said that payment was due with 7 calendar days of the invoice date. Set yourself up a message that you can copy & paste back to your solicitor, something like: "as per the payment terms on your website, payment for invoice ref (number) will be made by DD-MM." Reply with exactly the same message if you get contacted again before the date is up.

The website should also tell you if your solicitor requires any funds to be held on account. I had keep a minimum balance of £1k in mine. They might have concerns if they also have a minimum account balance and yours is under this figure.

Given your situation, I would suggest speaking with the senior person at the firm regarding a payment arrangement. As you have a large property asset and/or are confident of receiving a significant settlement, they may be prepared to wait and receive a guaranteed payout after the financial order is finalised. Of course they would want this to be a legally binding agreement, which they would charge you to arrange (but shouldn't cost much, especially in relation to your existing costs).

Best of luck .

With everything that’s going on, the hostility of the divorce, your father being ill, it must be overwhelming. It’s not surprising that contact from your solicitor triggers a lot of stress as it’s a reminder of your situation. You’ve said you feel guilty about asking for money so being chased for payments must feel awful. It’s frightening to see thousands disappear into the black hole of solicitors’ fees.

Step back from everything and try to look at things from a purely practical standpoint. You’re going through a contested divorce. That is going to cost thousands in fees. You don’t have the money for a solicitor. You do have choices.

If you want a fair settlement, you are going to need to pay lots of money to a solicitor. It’s not right but you either accept it or accept an unfair settlement. It’s a choice. If you walked away now, what would you end up with? What are you likely to end up with if this goes the distance (the most conservative estimate)? What’s the ballpark cost of a contested divorce that goes the distance (and involves hiring an accountant) if you use this solicitor? Do the numbers stack up - is it worth the outlay on legal fees? Is it worth the stress? Do you want this particular solicitor or would a different (cheaper) solicitor be a better fit for you?

Once you’ve worked that out, you’ll know (roughly) how much you need to borrow. Would it be easier for you to borrow a lump sum that will cover everything than have to ask for money bit by bit?

It didn’t make me feel great about spending the money but knowing that there was an upper limit and that I’d definitely end up with a net gain helped me to feel more in control. I still felt harassed at every contact from the solicitor but that was because it brought to the fore everything I was trying to hard to ignore so that I could get through the day rather than sitting in a corner crying.

A few things to consider here:

1. You will have been given a client care letter at the beginning which sets out exactly how the matter will be billed (rates, frequency etc). This will usually cross refer to the firm’s standard terms and conditions. These usually contain payment terms for each bill. 30 days is standard. what does yours say?
2. often a lawyer will ask for money on account to set off against future bills. Has this been discussed?
3. if he is £600 per hour I would expect quite a lot of the work to be done a junior lawyer at a lower rate and checked by him. Has he mentioned anyone else working on the file? Is he a sole practitioner?
4. Regulator (SRA) also requires them to give you an estimate of what the work will cost, as far as they are able. This applies even when it’s not clear what exactly will be needed because much depends on how the other side behaves. Have you seen anything like this?
5. It’s unusual to send a bill after each letter. Monthly or larger task-based billing is more normal.
6. He can’t charge for preparing bills or drafting emails chasing you to pay.

Are we supposed to just take the word of lawyers saying it took x hours to do Y?

Doesn’t matter what the website says. It’s the letter of engagement that sets out payment terms.

Broadly, yes. Would you challenge a heating engineer about how long it took to fix your boiler? A lawyer isn’t going to bill fraudulently.

Of course you can query anything that seems unreasonable to you and if you don’t get a satisfactory explanation you can always go to regulator. Why not look at the SRA website for more information?

In that case are you sure these are not just standard emails sent out to anyone owing a bill, and you’re in a bit of a shit headspace and taking it personally? I get all kinds of payment reminders for things that I’ve actually paid for. Off the top of my head I’ve had ‘reminders’ for an orthodontist bill thats up to date, two slightly threateningly worded emails from the school saying if my childrens dinner or school coach accounts are in arrears then they’ll be refused transport and food, like they’re always in the red or something and this is the final straw. Both accounts are always up to date. Plus a trip that I’ve booked through my local youth club. If you’re paying on time and they’ve not pulled you over late payments, surely just ignore the emails and carry on as you’ve been doing?

This is very odd. I don't know any lawyers who invoice more than monthly and I've never heard of someone being chased to pay within a day. Does he work alone or is he part of a practice?

Could it be:
Him / the firm having serious cash flow problems?
Him knowing that you have little cash so being reluctant to let the invoices stack up?
Him worrying you will disappear to another firm so worrying about you paying?

Either way it is perfectly reasonable to ask to pay monthly. Also I imagine you could find a very competent lawyer for less than £600 per hour.

Unfortunately though however quickly / slowly you pay you are still gong to have to fork out £££ if you need his advice (and it sounds like you do).

Sorry OP it is an awful thing you are going though

I’m currently divorcing. My STBXH has also been hiding/undervaluing assets.

He won’t use a solicitor, and as he’s been abusive to me, I have to refer everything to my solicitor. He also makes ridiculous demands which if he bloody well used a solicitor he would know is pointless and time wasting. So it costs me extra for my solicitor to explain simple ideas to him.

It has cost me about £10k so far (over nearly 18 months).

My solicitor costs about £260/hour and she bills me monthly in the first few days of the month. I have 14 days to pay. I have always paid on time, so I don’t know what their chasing would be like.

I started off giving her a retainer of a suggested £1,000 but that was also to cover the Petition fee (£593?).

I feel she has been very fair and honest with me. She does what she says she will do, and doesn’t pre-empt work that I said I would do, and then charge me.

As I have discovered a divorce can be one of the most miserable experiences of your life, you don’t need to be worrying about your solicitor as well.

perhaps ring around (if you can bear to) as a new client and ask them about costs and how they bill clients. If you were to find someone you click with, maybe come clean and ask how much to change solicitors and get them up to speed. Many will offer a free consultation.

When you say yours is £600, I assume you mean per hour. That looks pretty steep. Are you in a big city. I would recommends my solicitor, I am in the Hampshire area.

It’s EXTREMELY steep. Most corporate law firms don’t charge £600 per hour for a partner!

What do the terms of business & letter of engagement say?

Just get a new lawyer he doesn't sound like a good fit for you and just because he was great for your friend doesn't make him a good fit for you?
You've still got a long and stressful road to go down you need to be working with someone you have a better relationship with.

As others have said, you really need to check what payment terms you have agree to when you started with them. Some solicitors insist on payment within 24 hours of work done, this is more common if there is a worry that you may be unable to pay as it prevents a huge bill being racked up before it all falls apart. Some will be happy to say payment within 7 days. Some will be monthly but insist on a balance on the account e.g. £1000.

You need to check what you agree to because if you have agreed to within 48 hours/24 hours then of course they will chase you when you have failed to pay within the agreed timeline.

My lawyer owns his own firm and has 2 people working for him. One is a trainee and assume the other is a paralegal.

If you are paying your lawyer to answer every email and query the costs will stack up. You may want to change to a model whereby you get him to do specific tasks eg financial order. Rather than deal with all correspondence. Or ask if he has a junior who can take over some of it.

If he is personally chasing you for payment within 24 hours this sounds to me like he is in financial difficulties. I would be looking elsewhere OP.

And with a budget of less than £600 per hour.

Wow. Him essentially badgering you to pay instantly is really worrying. I’d instruct another, cheaper, lawyer.

Your initial post said my lawyer is roughly £600. Can you clarify that you really do mean £600 per hour?! For effectively a one-man band, even if he is operating from central London or another major city, that is an incredibly high hourly rate. Where did you find this lawyer, was he a recommendation from someone trusted? His rate plus his billing per every piece of work carried out and immediate chasing of monies owed all gives me bad feeling.

I'm a lawyer (not family). We bill our (corporate) clients on a monthly basis, and then credit control chases them if they're unpaid after a month or so. I imagine private client is a bit more pushy, but I've never known a solicitor to issue an invoice the same day as the work is done and chase for it before 7am the following day. Fair enough if they want money on account, but if you've paid in a day or two usually, then this seems very odd to me.

You should have been provided with payment terms before agreeing to use this solicitor. Ask for them now.

Firstly, I'd agree with others that £600 an hour is very high for a private client solicitor - I work at a large corporate firm and that's in line with the top rate charged for our most senior partners.

Contentious private client matters are always tricky from a financial standpoint and I know that at the firm I trained at our accounts team were really hot on making sure that we didn't get too deep in the hole on matter involving individuals. Cash on account was required much of the time, or else monthly invoices paid in line with our payment terms.

Your engagement letter from him should set out the expectations around billing and payment and service should be provided in line with that - I would make it clear during any interactions around payment of invoices that you will comply with those terms. Chasing in less than 24 hours is inappropriate - if cashflow is genuinely that tight on your solicitor's side then they need to take a look at how they're doing things.

This is not normal. Invoicing should be monthly or after a particular chunk of work has been completed. I’d have a quiet, polite word with him to ask to clarify his billing practices and agree something sensible and workable on both sides. Also if you have any doubts about him, move to another lawyer asap. Even one more expensive. Legal fees are painful but worth it in the long run as you’ll get a better outcome in the settlement.

They dont care about your situation. They care about making as much money as possible.

Yes. If you don’t trust them, book someone else.