What do I do? Can they force me to attend?

[ShalommJackie]

I'm off sick at the moment. Partly due to a grievance I have put in against my senior leadership team and partly due to having cancer surgery this week.

Government guidance surrounding my job and the application of it in practice is about to change and therefore my job is about to be so much harder, the meeting to discuss the implications and procedures etc is on Friday. I'm having cancer surgery on Thursday and will not be staying overnight

My manager has decided I need to attend this On a teams meeting but the issue is I'd be the only person to attend via zoom and I am unsure as to how much pain I'll be in.

So aibu to say no, I will attend a catch up session if needed?

I think it depends if your having a general anaesthetic or not. I had a potentially cancerous mole removed under local and would have been fine to work the next day, had it not been on my foot since I work on my feet. A general no way should you attend, the effects of the anaesthetic last 24 hours or more.

Think you missed the part that OP is already diagnosed with cancer.

My friend had a cancer diagnosis ( now in recovery thank goodness) and our employer did not expect her to do anything but stay home and concentrate on her physical & mental wellbeing.

We work in education and schools aren’t always the best employers either, but I have to say they were decent in that regard.

I work in HR. OMFG.

Agree, contact your HR team for support in dealing with this idiot manager x

I agree with this. Cancer surgery covers so many ops nowadays (including some biopsies) but if it involves a GA then I'd say your head won't be in a good place for any form of meeting the next day. I had a malignant lesion removed from the side of my face (local anaesthetic, 6 stitches, drove myself home and in to work next day) and more recently a radical smx (GA, lay on sofa feeling grim for nearly 2 weeks). Good luck OP, cancer surgery is scary wherever it is.

I think it hugely depends on what the surgery is. You say cancer surgery but that could mean anything. Are you having a 5 hour op to remove part of an organ or 30 min procedure to remove a mole on your back? Seeing as you’re not being kept in, I’m assuming it’s nothing like the former.

Seeing as you’re off work, you don’t need to go at all, but as this impacts your role and is therefore critical information for you, I would consider dialling in from home so you get all the information. For example, questions could be asked that are actually quite relevant to you that you may not think about in a separate catch up session. I suspect your grievance is clouding your judgment, but don’t cut your nose off to spite your face.

When I had my hysterectomy a few years ago I was given a sick note from the surgeon when I left that was for 6 weeks because that was the recovery period predicted.

I went back after 3 on reduced workload because I could work office stuff (my choice).

So absolutely speak to the surgeon when you are discharged and they'll, give you a note for the time they expect you to recover for.

And best of luck for the surgery

Oh and the advice is not to make any decisions that matter for 24-72 hours after anaesthetic. So you shouldn't be attending a meeting the next day anyway. You could agree to anything 🤣

This is outrageous! Not only of course you cannot attend but they shouldn't be stressing you out with it.

Get a sick note and rest.

Honestly the generations that have fought for our rights and you get people pulling this on a very sick person makes me so angry.

"Cancer related surgery" might just be having a suspicious mole removed. OP hasn't specified.

Either way, I don't think a day off afterwards is unreasonable, but talk of anaesthetic and painkillers may not be relevant.

I can't believe any employer would be pushing for a meeting the day after a GA - I recently had a short one and was advised not to drive or sign any important paperwork for 24-48 hours. The union would go mad at this.

But if it's minor surgery such as a mole removal I don't think there is a strong reason not to go apart from not wanting to. Whether the OP wants to be pushed into a toxic meeting the day after, is another thing.

I see the bootlickers are out in force on this thread.

Bully for you if you had a mole removed and were able to return to work the same day while juggling 17 children and 4 dogs and you secured the Johnson deal. Well fucking done. Not all mole removals are straight forward. Not everyone is a robot and is mentally well enough to go back after a cancer removal the next day.

Acting like this is the reason employers treat
people like shite, it gives them free reign to trample all over boundaries and create a toxic environment "well Barbara was back at work and hour after her surgery so what's your excuse? You're not a team player you're letting the side down blah blah blah". So desperate to appease the people who would step on your neck for a chance to get higher on the ladder or make a few budget cuts.

*Think you missed the part that OP is already diagnosed with cancer.

My friend had a cancer diagnosis ( now in recovery thank goodness) and our employer did not expect her to do anything but stay home and concentrate on her physical & mental wellbeing.*

The OP has said she’s off sick just now following a grievance she raised, and has a cancer op next week. That could be anything from a biopsy to extensive surgery (though that’s not likely if it’s a day case or overnight given she expects to be home to next day). She says she’ll get a sick note, which suggests she doesn’t have one already - by next week she’ll be over the 5 days self certification limit so will need a fit note for her absence. While some employers might waive the need for a sick note in some circumstances if the OP wants and needs time off it’s reasonable to follow the process for sick leave.

No way should you be attending any meeting either virtually or in person the day after an operation

Yes, I would. For some reason places like the NHS and the Health and Safety Executive do things which actively undermine their employees' health. Part of it is lack of funding but part of it does seem to be cultural.

If it's being done under general anaesthetic OP won't be fit to work the next day. I've had 2 minor operations under general anaesthetic and it takes days to get out of my system.

They can’t force you to attend!

Just wanted to say I temped in 2 different NHS teams in 2 central London offices about 1-2 years before covid.

I found managers there to be mostly bullying and using stupid practices like micromanaging. They also easily snitched on each other for fairly minor work incidents. I was happy to leave and actually walked out of the second contract. One manager and team was lovely though.

That’s interesting, I’ve got a minor op under GA soon and thought it’d be a day one with no after effects but will be aware.

You are so not unreasonable to not attend, even remotely! I guess they think they need to look like they are including you, but they can't force you.

Hope the surgery goes well and you have a swift recovery

Yep, I've had 2 days case GAs and another procedure under sedation. After all 3 I was advised not to work/drive/be responsible for small children/make big decisions for the following 24 hours. One I felt fine afterwards and didn't understand why they'd told me that. The other 2 I couldn't have done anything if I'd tried!

Would you believe I work for the nhs 😳

Certainly would!

Been there, done that, wept all over the tee-shirt . . .

Only employer I've had that was worse was a university - but it was a close call.

That's so helpful thank you! I'm going to tell her to leave me alone.

depends on the type of surgery. and yes, ostensibly it seems massively unreasonable, BUT if it's a large team meeting detailing important information, you may miss out on hearing things you could do with knowing. yes they should be able to give a synopsis when you're well again but TBH if it's as important as you suggest i'd want to be there to hear first hand.

It's a wide local excision with lymph node dissection for melanoma. All my groin lymph nodes will be removed on one side.

Even if it is "just a cancerous mole removal" thats really not the point. The point is she has a manager who is totally out of order to even contemplate holding this meeting the day after a procedure. No one knows how someone is going to react to whatever procedure they have. My last GA for a minor procedure, I was away with the faeries for about 10 days after, sure I felt ok after 24hrs, but then I fell asleep at the wheel of the car 4 days later ( luckily bumping over the cats eyes woke me and no one was harmed ) I had a very minor procedure on Friday, pain killers only, I expected to go on into work, my choice, was as high as a kite and had to call a friend to come get me and I spent the rest of the day in some kind of giddy high and even on the Sunday - 48hrs later I felt awful. No one knows how someone is going to react. Ive worked with people who have wisdom teeth removed or stitches and walked straight back into work, whereas someone else would take a day or two

I can’t believe you’re asking! Of course you’re not being U. And TBH unless there is an urgent need to have this meeting on that day, if it’s mostly about your role they should be having the whole meeting at a time you can attend in person.

Also I've got stage 4 melanoma but it has shrunk enough to be removed after immunotherapy. So this is a really important surgery.

I've asked my gp for a fit note for the surgery, got a phone call at 10 to discuss how long.