To think this will do nothing to help absence rates

[Imonthebloodyphone]

So a report published today says that school summer holidays in England should be cut to four weeks. (I know Wales has been consulting on this for a while but don't know if anything has been decided)

The report recommends longer half-term breaks in the autumn and spring terms in a proposed overhaul of the academic calendar. Article here:
www.theguardian.com/education/2024/feb/26/school-summer-holidays-half-term-england-calendar-nuffield-foundation-report

AIBU to think this is only going to exacerbate school absence? Because what struggling families really need is even more pressure on the already expensive 6 week summer holiday period when they can take their kids away!

Who on earth wants extra weeks in November and February, especially families who can't afford to go abroad. The last two weeks have been so bloody wet and miserable here in the UK; I can't imagine if a February holiday was my best hope of a break.

i do think that the autumn term is long and could do with a longer holiday, but February, really?

I haven't read the whole thread but this is just such an awful idea if the current term start dates aren't also adjusted. Your summer would be contained to August, which let's face it can feel quite autumnal some years, whilst the glorious days of June and July are in the classroom. You'd spend half of the month of cold, wet February off. No way. The whole thing needs a rethink. They need to adjust the terms so the children can actually benefit from being off and outside playing. Not stuck indoors on screens and being dragged around shopping centres etc.

Will the MPs be shortening their Summer recess to fall in with this by any chance

No, health professionals could just kill people instead. Far less important clearly.

More holidays at colder times of year also equals lower heating bills for the schools thinks the cynic in me.

We had several teachers come from Eastern European countries to teach at our school some years ago-before Brexit. They were lovely and their English pretty good, but there were some language barriers and teaching phonics particularly caused an few issues. That wasn’t why they left though-a swathe of our parents basically decided they wanted an English teacher for their KS1 child and started an unpleasant hate campaign against them. Endless complaints, problems, emails, letters and stirring up problems in the playground. The teachers were gone by Easter.

I

They have a very different pattern, including different exam times.

I think what leaps out there is ‘long summer holiday’. Downtime makes things easier. Plus the exam schedule prohibits that sort of thing here.
The English/Welsh school system has some problems others don’t seem to have around underfunding and behaviour issues. I’ve worked in it for 35years - I’m as certain as I can be that any more than 6 weeks without a break means behaviour and learning are badly affected.

Nobody has said anything about relative importance. Just particular difficulties around doing the job.

I would think if they were that badly affected then teachers unions here would be against the long terms. Days are usually shorter here though, which I expect helps, plus there's a lot less rules so probably less stressful to manage behaviour.

Yeah the UK exam schedule works for the current set up, same as our exam schedule works for ours, both schedules can be changed but would require such a big change to make it work that the reason for changing would have to be really really worth it.

Yes. Teachers are paid for their 1265 hours and extra time directed by the head, e.g. meetings, training, and marking and preparation (hours can be 60 a week when these items are included). They are not paid for the holidays, though their salary is spread over the whole year (which makes budgeting easier). The only perk left in teaching is the long summer holiday so if that goes the number of teachers deciding they might as well have a job where they can choose their holidays and be paid more (v. likely) will increase. And the shorter summer will put pressure on summer holiday prices, which will penalise less well off families.

It was certainly implied "health professionals aren't dealing with 30 plus children".

As I said whilst teaching is important it's not a matter of life death.

This idea was proposed 20 odd years ago. It would affect teacher recruitment and the retention current ones. It’ll never happen.

It might. It’s pretty likely to happen in Wales next year

The proposal in Wales seems to be adding weeks to May and October which I can see being popular. I’m not sure how the Welsh exam system works but I can’t see this ever being adopted in English schools due to the external exams and is certainly not what’s being proposed

The Nuffield research for England is about swapping summer weeks for October and February which I don’t think will be popular at all with anyone and is unlikely to be adopted for that reason.

It’ll be right smack bang in the middle of the GCSE and A levels.

We’ll all be asked to come into school to hold revision sessions instead…that’s if they change when the exams take place. Some exams where the exam board is English, will have to go ahead I assume. It’s such a stupid idea. It feels as though the Welsh Gov has only considered primary schools.

Exam year groups will lose a week of teaching from their year. Teachers will have more gained time at the end of the year I suppose. Kids miss out.

Your original point was about teaching not being a special case when compared with health workers. The issue was around language.

My citing 30+ children is the numbers, i.e. in a classroom at the same all day, not a life or death situation. It is you who are inferring I have said teaching is more important, when I have said it is special case, i.e. different, which it is.

While we are at it, could we have the Christmas holiday run for at least a full week before Christmas and then back to school asap after New Years' Day, rather than being at school throughout the entire Christmas build-up and getting no rest time before the actual festival (travel, relatives etc) kicks off?

I would much prefer doing exciting Christmas activities at home with engaged children on 20th December than trying to entertain them in cold weather indoors for the 10th consecutive day of playing with their new toys/walks/leftovers.

That’s not about the relative importance. It’s about the practicalities and how they affect the ability of non-first language speakers to function in a role. How on earth are you thinking it’s about importance?

When I was at secondary school we had 5 7-8 week terms, with 2 weeks off between each one, getting 5 weeks off in summer. Our school day was 08:30 to 15:50. 8 lessons a day which were 40 minutes long. Tutor group was 08:30 - 08:50, followed by tutor group and 2 lessons until 10:50, morning break until 11:00, then 3 lessons until 13:00, lunch until 13:50 then 3 lessons until 15:50.

Loved the layout, we only went max 8 weeks until we got 2 weeks off, only had to study for 2 hours at a time, less homework as the academic day was longer. Parents liked it as holidays abroad were cheaper! I dont know why more schools dont implement it!

Parents liked it as holidays abroad were cheaper

Presumably holidays abroad were cheaper because only your school did this. If this idea is implemented, everyone will have the same 4 weeks off in the summer and the same two weeks in Oct/Feb. The costs will be astronomical and parents will be fighting to get the weeks off they need (as everyone will want the same ones!).

Not really, because you'd have 2 weeks in June/july, 2 weeks in April/may, and 2 weeks in oct/nov PLUS 5 weeks in the summer holidays, so 11 weeks of decent holiday weather rather than 8.

The proposal for England in the Nuffield research (which this thread is about) is a week extra in February (making 2), and an extra week in October/November. No extra weeks in May/June and only 4 weeks in the summer.

I think it’s a great idea!
Seven weeks off in May would be fab and everyone could have a cheap holiday!
I just priced up a May holiday for this year and it’s much much cheaper than the summer, so again…win win!

Ah, apologies. No, I wouldn’t like a 2 week half term in February either. In Wales, we have the same exam timetable as England and many schools use English exam boards so I’ve no idea how the 2 week May half term would work

Unless this is in the spirit of sarcasm then it ignores the fact that the holiday companies and airlines would put up their prices accordingly.