AIBU it's nearly impossible to break into IT industry if you don't have previous experience?

[jobsearching2024]

I'm a project manager working in engineering/manufacturing. I want to switch to IT as it's easier to commute to London where most of the IT sector jobs are offered and would appreciate flexible hybrid working hours which is very common in IT.

But since I started looking at the job boards on several websites, nearly every single job post in IT requires:

• either experiences in software development
• or certain particular technology/software/platform, some specific skills

I just don't see how it's possible even to be considered for a chance. Am I wrong?

I'm very capable in what I'm doing in my current industry. But even with the experience to manage technical (engineering) contents, I can't see how I could even go through the first stage screening just by key words and the lack of those particular skills.

Thinking back previous job hunting experiences, I often had similar impression. The particular "basic requirements" are very specific to meet unless you are already at that level within that environment. It seems more so in the IT.

My understanding is that maybe the talent pool in IT is vast and people constantly move around. So maybe because of this, the employers are always able to find enough right candidates who meet those criteria?

Stretching the truth can be an option to reach the interview stage. But then what? If I don't have the experience, then I don't. I feel very uncomfortable to bend the truth. But then for all those jobs out there, are all viable applicants good matches?

And your very intelligent point is...?
The OP is in a good position. As her DH works in the industry she has a golden opportunity to talk to those in the field. All she's spoken about so far is looking things up online, and asking on MN.
She has also said that she doesn't want to learn things from scratch. Where does that leave us?

OP stated that she learnt on the job. That's fair enough if she worked her way up. But her post makes it seem that she wants to move sideways, not downwards.

I was in PMO, and then a PM before I became an engineer and unlike in , say civil engineering anybody can enter the industry. My colleagues came (and still do) from all sorts of backgrounds. Including manufacturing! But it needs the right role. Obviously a 'technical PM' who needs to know what they're doing is difference from a general 'PM' role whose job mainly involves chasing people and updating stakeholders.

None of us here can give general advice unless it relates to a specific job description. There are also 'related' things like Change Management, Transformation management etc etc that would utilise a PM skillset.

Thanks for the harsh comments.

You are right, everyone has to start somewhere. Sometimes, it means lower levels or overlapping fields, like PO suggested by someone.

No need to bash me for being unrealistic😅. Some poster has already suggested those without certain IT experience do exist. We live in a real world where a lot is involved to have someone hired. And sometimes they may not be the right candidate, even if they have the right CV.

I wrote this thread to understand the situation and I'm glad I did, as I learned a lot first hand information. I'm grateful.

Simply pointing out that you were effectively jumping down her throat when others had already made the substantive points and she’d acknowledged them….

Again, what you said it's an ideal scenario. I've seen enough in my employment years of people who are not right for the job - more than 50% I'd say. The higher it goes, the more it's true.

I was willing to learn previously because of genuine interest. I wasn't sure and still not sure I can migrate the same passion to IT. Thanks to other helpful shared experiences, I do realise if I don't want to learn about technology or a certain aspect of it, I'd better stay out of it.

Is it my acknowledgement of this upsets you?

Why kept mentioning my DH? He's a type of people thinking entirely differently than me and he's a firm believer of learning adapting. So he believes I do do well if I get a chance. I prefer to find my own way without using his connections if I can.

I'm not sure why you and @Shivermetimbers0112 are getting very emotional. PP is trying to defend you from me 'jumping down your throat' and you think I'm upset... you need to have a thicker skin to work in IT. Especially as, many technical people don't like project managers.

You've also ignored the actual advice I gave which is that. Project management in IT is vast. Not just that, the field of 'non-technical' roles that utilise project management skills, is also very big. A PP mentioned buzzwords, which is true. But also, there are a lot of roles with similar job titles which do vastly different things.

As I mentioned, transformation manager is one example, governance is another. A PP mentioned 'project office' but not all firms have it, or even if they do, call it another name.

Using your DH connections isn't wrong. It's an effective way to get what you want. And, you are not asking for a job, just an insight from people actually working in the industry. If you want to 'make your own way', then go to MeetUps, message people on LinkedIn. But you really need to talk to those in the industry. Just reading JD's won't be of any use, as we don't know what specific type of project management job in IT it is, that you're looking for.

If you want to post some here happy to comment.

Where exactly was I getting “emotional” Opal? You seem to be the one taking umbrage.

Sorry if I over-reacted. I just think it's a bit unfair to say I just thought I could walk across the sector barriers with ease. I didn't, I was aware of it. My original post did not point out I have been dreading it for ages, just because I'm aware it wouldn't be easy to start at least even if I get an offer.

Points are taken and appreciate the suggestions and insights.

You stated I was jumping down OP's throat - and I said that... guess you can't be bothered to read whatever you're replying to.
In all honesty, I'm not sure why you're even on this thread. You gave a generic comment about professional occupations - looks like you don't know anything about being a PM in the IT industry. You then proceeded to reply to my posts. Whatever you think of my manner, I work in this industry and am giving OP actual useful advice.
Maybe actually contribute something useful too, or find some other thread to comment on? :) Have a good day.

Ultimately OP, IT is difficult because of the double edged sword of having no standards. That means anybody can enter. But also, new entrants don't know what they have to do! I'll be honest most people who change successfully have inside knowledge. Not by contacts getting them a job. But their knowledge is drawn from others' personal experience , demonstrating an understanding of what the job is actually like. That's why I am focusing on you talking to current PM's.

Even for 'technical' roles skills inflation is very common. Sometimes the JD's are written by HR, who don't really know what is needed, so put a lot of buzzwords in. Other times, hiring managers don't know what the market is like, or are greedy and want a unicorn, etc etc.

If you understand what the job requires, you will understand whether a certain skills is there for decoration, or something you can pick up on the job. Defining your application strategy is a key, also how much you're willing to move for, etc.

Also, there's nothing stopping you from applying now, maybe with Indeed/LinkedIn (forgot which) Easy Apply. What have you got to lose? You might even get an interview. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. The key for me was your original question was were you U to wonder about these jobs having these requirements. Because, well, there is no PM job in the world that's going to be generic, is it? Again, thinking of your own job. If you reverse the situation... what would your idea of an 'IT PM' need to do your job?

What about a product manager? You'll still be within IT and working with software engineers. IT experience is a bonus, not an essential.

Requirements aren't always requirements, don't let it put you off. Why not approach a recruiter for a company and have a chat?

I suggest you read your original post again and reflect on its tone. And I’ll comment on any thread I choose to thanks. You have a lovely day too.

Well if all the people working in IT are are rude and obnoxious as our little friend here I can see why one needs a "thick skin". It's a wonder people like that even get a job tbh, people skills seriously lacking.

I do agree with @ThisOpalCritic that if you're in IT, particularly if you're a woman in a technical role, you do need a thick skin. You have to put up with a LOT of shit, which is one of the reasons I'm not doing it any more. Not everywhere is awful by any means though.

I also agree many technical folk don't like PMs.

My DH works in IT and has done for about 30 years. He would say most of the IT people he encounters dont know their arse from their elbow, have a small amount of knowledge about one aspect and think they know everything.

He specifically doesn't like contractors and/or project managers who waft in, make recommendations without understanding how this will impact all areas of operation, then waft off to the next job and leave the in-house IT staff to sort out the resultant chaos.

He active tells people to avoid a job in IT if you have any sense of integrity as it will grind you down.

@Createausername1970

He active tells people to avoid a job in IT if you have any sense of integrity as it will grind you down.

unfortunately, it's a bit everywhere. The amount of jaw dropping events in the companies I worked are shocking - They were all portrayed as "advancements" for the business at the time. All about money and self importance, very little pride in the true result, don't even mention about integrity.

We are in a materialised world. Some are just very material driven than others who are more principles driven.

I've worked as an IT PM for years. I'm currently recruiting for contract PMs and while I'm not looking for specific technical skills, I am looking for people who have delivered similar IT projects (end to end delivery from proposal/business case all the way through design, delivery, testing, acceptance into service, and deployment). I'm sorry OP but I wouldn't consider a PM without similar IT experience.

In the same way, I wouldn't trust myself to project manage (for example) building my own house.

I don't agree with most of the generalisations about IT staff above however. Like any working environment you get good and bad people.

I also agree many technical folk don't like PMs

I would like to be a different one (and I think I did manage), as I believe good PM relies on their team - their individual knowledge, intelligence and motivation.

Is it a different case for scrum masters? They are supposed to be in a more "servant" roles, at least that's how it's been portrayed.

Disclaimer: Only ask this out of curiosity, not that I want to apply for that role. 🙃

Oh, this... so much this!

Not everyone in IT is blessed with excellent with excellent interpersonal skills. This doesn't matter for men, but guess who was the only one in the department who got sent to HR about it, despite not being as charmless as most colleagues? And how many women were in the department?

However, PM probably isn't as bad as really techy departments.

But I have seen a number of IT job specs go out, and thought, if the person with that skills mix actually exists, we probably can't afford them. And when I showed a couple of friends in IT in other companies, they also thought it was a bit of a tall order. Person who was recruited was good, but didn't have all the apparently essential requirements.

Consider a delivery lead role. Your PM background would really help. I work in an in-house IT team in professional services. My background is compliance, project management and other things years before but never IT.

I work alongside a technical delivery lead but I'm "the face" of the IT team to the business.

Yes this too

I work alongside a technical delivery lead but I'm "the face" of the IT team to the business.

Are you Jen from The IT Crowd? 🤣

Scrum master / delivery lead or manager would be other options if you want to cast the net further. More about using agile principles to deliver on time and involved in the day to day delivery a little more than a traditional PM I would say.
I’m a BA in tech, we do get non-techy IT PM’s. Actually they don’t necessarily need to be techy, if they can handle difficult stakeholders (including grumpy devs who are unhappy they have a non-techy PM 😂 ) and are organised and can front business cases, manage comms etc they’re all good AS long as they have enough interest to gain enough knowledge to get them by.
It helps to know the tech speak so you better understand impact to timescales, asks of stakeholders etc.
Delivery will (I imagine) be very different to engineering/mechanical project delivery!
If you are a project manager I’d be inclined to disagree with the PP who suggested PMO (think it will be too much of a step down unless you are happy to do that as a stepping stone) and product management (you need to know and, ideally, care about your product which in IT means IT knowledge/experience) Edit - actually on reflection, not necessarily. Eg we have product manager for our events system. Based on a tech product but with a business focus/roadmap. Tech knowledge helpful though in defining/achieving that roadmap but probably not as essential as I initially worded.
Transformation manager might be a better fit for you - tends to be more strategic work and based around business change. An ability to pick up tech stuff would be helpful though as you may need to understand the tech landscape and change impact (and seemingly possible for you to do if you can pick up engineering)
Honestly, there’s a lot of opportunities but I’d say if your heart isn’t in it like it sounds, I’m not sure I’d be fighting to find a job here. Suppose it depends what you want out of your job though, we’re all different.

You can switch to a different sector but it takes time and as PP have said some steps down/sideways. I've been in PM for 30 years. Mostly IT. I wouldn't expect to get an interview for an engineering role or in drug development. I didn't have any IT qualifications when I started but I was young enough to get away with it.

If you are still keen after all the scary posts above, I'd see if you can wheedle your way into running a tech project in your current role. (Could be implementing a new tool for the firm, for example.)

I'd definitely also consider some IT but qualifications to get a sense of how IT systems work. Consider TOGAF, maybe? It's for technical architects but will give an overview of how things work.

I'd steer clear of scrum master roles initially - if you don't have any IT experience the team will run rings round you. And agile done badly is dreadful. Incredibly stressful and inefficient. Maybe look for roles that are implementing systems built by others - change managers for example. Or infrastructure IT project management - it is more similar to engineering work. E.g. Putting the IT into new building fit out.

IT work can be rewarding, interesting and well paid. And it can have all the problems listed above. I love it. And I'm definitely NOT Jen from the IT crowd.

The thing is OP very often the engineers aren't your team. They're just one of many other stakeholders. Your career progression and visibility depends on delivering a particular project that aligns with the incentives of a few groups, e.g. upper management.

You won't get any kudos for taking the time to build it right the first time. You progress much quicker getting things done, on time/under budget/whatever and then moving on to the next project. Any mess created rears its head when you're long gone, and you'll never get the blame anyway . That's why technical people often speak up but get pushed aside.

It's made much worse by the lack of regulatory standards. Although such things can happen in other industries (e.g. Grenfell Tower).
Companies can get fined for data breaches, there can be an investigation etc etc but unlike, say needing a chartered engineer to sign off on something, or an actual doctor to sign off on a prescription nobody's really accountable. Despite rising awareness on the cost of IT outages, cybersecurity companies make all the right noises but still don't really think they should be paying for any sort of quality.

A good PM with a strong backbone is worth their weight in gold, but again, it's not really their fault if they're not incentivised to take the long-term view.

@Createausername1970 I sort of agree with your DH but people are switching to IT in droves thanks to the pay and flexible working. Particularly people in public facing professions teachers, nurses, social workers, etc.

I was earning double the median national salary 5 years out of university, based in the North West. I like the challenge of my job, the posturing . lack of transparency etc annoys me but I get paid well for it. Many others have to put up with so much worse, for much less. I have put my foot down on many occasions and while it's not made me the most popular at least I retain some sense of being principled.

IT is also cyclical the market is dead right now, but looks like it will pick up.