Even more cyclists now breaking the law

[DistingusedSocialCommentator]

Most drivers and pedestrians will be aware of this as many have seen or been victims of a cycle rider.

Watching Talktv this morning there was a lady who had lost her mother due to an e-scooter rider on the pavement. The show had a lawyer on talking about what I agree with, IE cyclists are very hard to identify if they get away from an accident.

E-scooters we all know are against the law unless provided for by your local council in central London. Several times over the years, me and the family have had close calls with them on pavements and parks as they zoom down, you cant hear them and they often dress in all black clothing.

Push bike riders are travelling faster and faster as many more have those battery packs on them

With the introduction of 20mph zones in vast areas of London, even more, push bike riders are now breaking the law, EG travelling well over 20mph in a 20mph and passing slower cars travelling at 20mph We are all aware how some push bike riders have ignored the rules for years, EG jump red lights, ignore pedestrians on crossings, cause accidents and walk of or rise off and now, much more able to break the speed limits off 20mph with almost 100% impunity and some that at red lights get o the pavement and cross a red light that way or some just ride on pavements

For the record, note, Its some cyclists not all but we have all seen them more so as going to work, or dropping off children at schools the speed of some of these riders

The Talktv debate also talked about those who kill people while riding a push bike/scooter, I think they said the maximum prison sentence was two years (I may be wrong) but the laws needed vast improvements.

This had been talked about a lot before but nothing happened.

AIBU proposes that all cyclists have number plates/easily identifiable markings, all have insurance, all have a bell and lights, and all wear a helmet and hi-vis jacket (This would in my judgment make many more riders more responsible for their actions and our roads/pavements safer for all)

The police need to be more proactive on e-scooter riders. However, as cyclists are almost impossible to identify, my proposal as above will aid the police and hopefully, modify the dangerous behaviours of those cyclists that are now regularly breaking the law, EG, travelling at more than the speed allowed, jumping red lights, putting pedestrians at risk on crossings and pavements.

@Mittens55 honestly some days I’d rather not commute by bike for all the reasons the PP mentioned, but it’s the only way I can cover the distance between my daughter’s school and my workplace in the 30 minutes between their breakfast club opening/after school club closing and my working hours (apart from driving, but I can’t afford to run a car in London and there’s nowhere to park near the office). And as it’s necessary I try and see the silver linings such as the passive exercise and benefit to the environment. I’d also encourage others to take it up, simply because the more people cycle, the less people are driving and the safer the roads become.

@DdraigGoch

Yes, I'm all for increasing safety. Where I live, many residential areas have traffic calming measures already in place with more planned. However, this only really addresses speed and not the many other offences that posters have mentioned. Perhaps heavier penalties also need to be introduced (and I do include those who cycle in this) when they commit offences.

@Mittens55 I’m used to it. And it’s slowly getting better as the proportion of cyclists increase and drivers are more aware. It’s definitely more pleasant to be on my bike than driving. I hate driving in traffic as it takes so long. We rarely drove in the city so that’s why we sold the car. Cycling is faster, cheaper and more convenient and I don’t get that stressed about the numpties on the road and it does keep me fit. interestingly I was a cyclist before I learned to drive and my instructor said that every cyclist he taught had excellent observation skills.

i cycled to all my maternity appointments until the last month where I was just too big and unbalanced on my bike and didn’t get a single negative comment from any of the healthcare workers. I don’t go that quickly really, I hate off roading weirdly as don’t like any form of skidding and just see it as a really great way to get around. I’d welcome mandatory cycle training as part of a driving test as I think would increase awareness and perhaps get people to experience being on a bike who otherwise wouldn’t, like the swaps they do with HGV drivers and cyclists that increases awareness from both groups.

@AmeliaEarhart if you are in London there’s the women’s freedom ride next weekend which is a good opportunity for less confident cyclists to join in a group ride in central London. Was a lot of fun last year. https://lcc.org.uk/events/lcc-womens-freedom-ride-2/?utmcampaign=website&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sendgrid.com

@Runssometimes

"I’d welcome mandatory cycle training as part of a driving test as I think would increase awareness and perhaps get people to experience being on a bike who otherwise wouldn’t"

I'm not sure how that could ever be feasible. There has to be a huge group of motorists who, for whatever reason, could not cycle. I'm thinking of those with certain disabilities particularly.

It's not just about reducing speeds, the Dutch provide segregated infrastructure away from roads and build decent junctions.

Here's an illustration of the effectiveness of safety measures (it can be applied to any field of safety, not just roads). Administrative controls (such as making rules and fining people for contravening them) is the second least effective control. The most effective is to remove the hazard altogether (cars are now banned from the centre of many towns and cities in the UK), and where that can't be done engineering should be used. The Dutch police don’t spend much time dealing with speeding offences, if people still speed then the engineers blame the design and modify it.

Here's a street in Chester. If you move up and down it you can see that parking bays are limited in number (and you need a permit to use them) so no kids will be running out from between parked cars because they aren't nose-to-tail down the road. They are on alternate sides so any cars coming down the street have to slow down and go around. The street has been coloured red and sets have been used in places as another reason to slow down. If it was the Netherlands the quarter-circles at the end of the parking spaces would probably have planters on them to brighten up the street and you'd be permitted to dig up some of the pavement outside your house for a façade garden.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/st28e5tA6kuV9E3L7

Those who wibble on about helmets and hi-vis, please note that the HSE considers PPE to be a last resort safety control. Notice that the Dutch never wear helmets or hi-vis because they have dealt with the hazards using the more effective "elimination" and "engineering controls" approaches.

Of course there’ll be people who can’t for whatever reason cycle but I would think the vast majority of people can at least for short distances. There’s exceptions to everything but awareness goes a long way, having spoken to cyclists who then took it up like my brother who used to hate two abreast cyclists or those who took primary position, he now rides a bike and totally gets why this is sometimes a sensible thing to do. Admits he used to be a bit of a twonk in his attitude. If we just changed perspectives of a decent proportion of people it would make everyone safer.

Depends how you do it. One of the things they do with lorry drivers is put them on static exercise bikes in the road. That way they can feel what it's like when traffic passes too close.

Depends how you do it. One of the things they do with lorry drivers is put them on static exercise bikes in the road. That way they can feel what it's like when traffic passes too close.

I’m sure I’ve seen a video of bus drivers in Brazil doing similar training, where one chap freaks out and jumps off the static bike after the first close pass. I bet he went on to be extremely considerate to cyclists though!

@Runssometimes
@DdraigGoch

Yeah, some valid points.
It's such a pity that some (probably far too many) councils get it so spectacularly wrong when creating "safer" 🙄 cycle areas. Our LA is currently spending eye watering amounts of money on town centre cycle lanes. One such lane begins at the exit on a roundabout and ends little more than a bicycle length before throwing the cyclist back into traffic just before traffic lights. 🥴
Our town also has high levels of the type of behaviour described by the OP which is dangerous to everyone. This is predominantly youths wearing hoodies and balaclavas blasting around on motorised trail style bikes, weaving in and out of traffic, riding recklessly along pavements, pulling wheelies as they overtake a line of cars etc. The police are aware but can't catch them as they disappear off through places where the police cars can't follow. It is an antisocial problem for sure but how to stop it is a logistical nightmare.

@Mittens55 there's certainly a lot of poorly-designed infrastructure installed by incompetent local councils up and down the country - and people wonder why the blue-signed shared pavement that gives way to every side road doesn't get used by cyclists. Painted gutters being the worst.

A good network will allow someone to cycle from any conceivable origin to any conceivable destination without ending up on the carriageway of a road - so only using streets and dedicated cycle paths.

Some parts of the UK are finally starting to get it though, here is the manual used by the designers in London:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/lcds-chapter1-designrequirements.pdf

My proposal is better, have the number on a Hi-Vis jacket -thecost a few quid and easily worn over garments. Those that talk about costs being to" high to implement" - As it will create safety and accountability - Go For IT!!

Quote from the article in the link below
We wanted to know if UK cyclists should be made to have number plates - with more than four thousand of you answering our poll.
A whopping 2,898 said yes .......

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/cyclists-should-made-number-plates-30278924

I prefer to consult experts, not the readership of the Daily Mirror. Not a very scientific poll, 0/10 OP.

Perhaps you might like to learn about the pitfalls of relying on large sample sizes rather than stratifying the sample:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/social-science-history/article/president-landon-and-the-1936-literary-digest-poll/E360C38884D77AA8D71555E7AB6B822C

Op, just why? Why expend so much energy on hating vulnerable road users? Be happy, enjoy your retirement, stop this pointless tirade.

Pretty sure I could find more than 3,000 cyclists who would say it's a crap idea

You may be "sure" but I'm 100% certain that put to a national vote of millions, you will get similar results percentage-wise where over 75% of the population want some form of identification on cyclists that be easily noted and reported if and when required. As it stands and FM's have posted here, they've noted a cyclist breaking the rules but have no way of easily identifying them

Please don't use the argument it's not cost-effective, or that people will clone numbers as that is part of life. It is a trillion times better to have identification as mentioned above on cycysltis than no identification at all.

This way, pedestrian safety will increase and the lawlessness demonstrated by some cyclists will be greatly used as there would then be a chance of answering to a rider's blatant breach of the rules/carelessness/etc/etc.

It is time for change, a change for the better and safer roads and pavements for all pedestrians.

.

you’d be 100% certain all you like OP but you’d be wrong. It’s not over 75%. There’s been a reputable survey on this topic. I’ll let you have your own practice at researching it as you could do with the practice.

secondly cost efficacy is a key consideration, if members of the public were presented with a cost benefit analysis they’d be far less likely to support and you know it.

pedestrian safety would be improved by more regulation on speeds and smaller cars. There’s proof for that too, more googling for you.

I suppose that you think that "BoatyMcBoatface" is a good name for a research vessel, after all it was voted for by the people...

It is time for change, a change for the better and safer roads and pavements for all pedestrians.
I agree with you there, we really need to deal with pedestrian safety. As it is clear that motor vehicles make up 99% or so of the risk, that change must involve 20mph speed limits in built-up areas, lower limits on residential streets (20kph or the imperial equivalent); severing through roads so that cars have to go the long way around (you want to cross the Thames at Putney Bridge? You can cross by bike but cars must use the M25); and removing 10,000 on-street parking spaces from London's streets (just like Amsterdam and Paris are doing, photo from Paris below) and the equivalent amount from other towns and cities. Then we can review VED and start charging on the basis of weight*mileage, perhaps with extra penalties for driving in congested areas. Sounds like an excellent manifesto.

If we want to improve pedestrian safety we should really ban SUVs, especially from urban areas where they are simply unnecessary.

Introduce alcohol locks on every motorised vehicle.

Ban people from driving near schools during drop off/pick up time.

20mph is still quite a lot, on housing estates this can go down to 10mph.

I'd also require video security systems for van/HGV blind spots. No more 'cyclists stay back' - how about drivers check your flipping blind spot

Oh yes good one!

Though ideally cyclists will not be in that situation anymore because there will be segregated cycling lanes like in the Netherlands, and Dutch style roundabouts where cyclists have the priority.

The Japanese approach of banning overnight on-street parking is a good one. It still allows deliveries and tradesmen to work during the day, but stops people using a public street to store their private property. Imagine if I put a garden shed on a street because I didn't have room for it at home. I'd never get away with that so why can people occupy public streets with their cars? They ought to at least pay market rate rent for the land they're occupying (want to park in Chelsea? That'll be £10/hour).

Even in car-centric Toronto they found that removing parking spaces was a massive boost to the local economy:
https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/11/22/torontos-curbside-patios-made-49-times-more-money-than-the-parking-they-replaced

That’s why self-driving electric cars would solve all our problems.

Clear streets, safe cyclists, no need for cycle lanes, mobility and convenience for all.

@WhatsTheUseOfWorrying I’m not sure they would, I think there’d still be a large proportion of vulnerable cyclists that would prefer to be on segregated infrastructure. And self driving cars are still not safe for cyclists. The Range Rover that almost hit me has inbuilt safety features but only stopped when I physically made myself bigger by turning my bike side on. I’m a bit unconvinced and I’m think the automation can give a false sense of security. Maybe they’ll be better in the future but I think we’re a way off yet. At the moment AVs are better at predicting behaviour of other cars not of pedestrians and cyclists.

An interesting article here in some of the considerations.

https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/autonomous-vehicles-automatically-safer

But I definitely think car sharing would improve things so people only use a car when other modes of transport aren’t suitable and think there needs to be more efficient use of vehicles in general. Even less road space being used for parking would make it better for cyclists and pedestrians and drivers alike.

@Runssometimes @WhatsTheUseOfWorrying I guess you could say that driverless cars might not necessarily be better than a conventional car in an individual situation, but the idea is that there would be fewer cars on the road as they would be shared. Which makes it safer for cyclists. Fewer parked car doors opening. Cars would be better maintained. Routes would be optimised to help traffic flow so you don't end up stuck behind a load of cars etc.