Even more cyclists now breaking the law

[DistingusedSocialCommentator]

Most drivers and pedestrians will be aware of this as many have seen or been victims of a cycle rider.

Watching Talktv this morning there was a lady who had lost her mother due to an e-scooter rider on the pavement. The show had a lawyer on talking about what I agree with, IE cyclists are very hard to identify if they get away from an accident.

E-scooters we all know are against the law unless provided for by your local council in central London. Several times over the years, me and the family have had close calls with them on pavements and parks as they zoom down, you cant hear them and they often dress in all black clothing.

Push bike riders are travelling faster and faster as many more have those battery packs on them

With the introduction of 20mph zones in vast areas of London, even more, push bike riders are now breaking the law, EG travelling well over 20mph in a 20mph and passing slower cars travelling at 20mph We are all aware how some push bike riders have ignored the rules for years, EG jump red lights, ignore pedestrians on crossings, cause accidents and walk of or rise off and now, much more able to break the speed limits off 20mph with almost 100% impunity and some that at red lights get o the pavement and cross a red light that way or some just ride on pavements

For the record, note, Its some cyclists not all but we have all seen them more so as going to work, or dropping off children at schools the speed of some of these riders

The Talktv debate also talked about those who kill people while riding a push bike/scooter, I think they said the maximum prison sentence was two years (I may be wrong) but the laws needed vast improvements.

This had been talked about a lot before but nothing happened.

AIBU proposes that all cyclists have number plates/easily identifiable markings, all have insurance, all have a bell and lights, and all wear a helmet and hi-vis jacket (This would in my judgment make many more riders more responsible for their actions and our roads/pavements safer for all)

The police need to be more proactive on e-scooter riders. However, as cyclists are almost impossible to identify, my proposal as above will aid the police and hopefully, modify the dangerous behaviours of those cyclists that are now regularly breaking the law, EG, travelling at more than the speed allowed, jumping red lights, putting pedestrians at risk on crossings and pavements.

Incredible

Which part of having clear, visible ID on the bike or their hi-vis jacket that is easily identifiable when riding a bike was you unable to comprehend?

NI numbers are too long to easily identify EG whe a cuccle rider goes through red lights, zebra crossing when people are crossing, or riding on pavement where they are not supposed to.
Thanks

Thank you.

It does hurt especially when not one of the riders is able to justify when they can do that. Vehicles, and motorbikes have a reg that must be easily readable to ID them if/when they break the law, why not push bike riders

Ask any victim of a cyclist and the millions who have seen riders jump red lights, ride on pavements, cross zebra crossings when not supposed to - they only reason they don't get reported is that there is no way to easily identify them

I don't have mudguards or a rack and under my saddle on my road bike the small amount of space that exists is taken up by a saddlebag with spares.

My MTB I use offroad so a plate would both be pointless and potentially dangerous if I snag it off something.

So no, I can't or will not fit a completely pointless and potentially dangerous licence plate to my bikes.

And the point remains that requiring them is an idiotic idea anyway.

Read my posts and for the millionth time - best way forward is a number on the hi-vis jacket. It is really that simple. More citizens will then be able to report those that break the law and as a result, you will get a more safer environment

Why most cycle riders don't wear hi-vis is beyond me

My waterproof jacket cost over £200. If it's sunny I don't wear it at all.

I'm not buying another one along with multiple ID jerseys at around £60 a pop for a pointless, worthless scheme.

If you actually give a shit about making the roads safer, you will advocate the idea of making getting people on bikes and out of cars as easily and cheaply as possible, not putting pointless barriers of cost and bureaucracy in the way.

As you have been told a million times.

Well that's not going to be readable once my toolbag goes on, never mind the panniers.

The thing is, making all these rules will put off the sensible and law abiding- who do the right thing anyway, and those that are left will just carry on, as they don’t think laws apply to them.
Same with all these rules about Xl bullies, microchipping of cats and the like.
Those who are sensible and responsible do it, the ones the laws are meant to target, don’t. And no one does anything about it- if you make a rule, then you need to police it.

Jezza's a legend.

This is my winter jacket. It's highly visible. It has reflective panelling to the rear. It's also breathable in the right places, insulated in the right places and has pockets in the right places, whilst still being reasonably aerodynamic when riding my road bike. It costs £320. I'm not going to put a one size fits none building site flappy hi viz over the top to go for a ride in the countryside where its rare to see another person, and I'm guessing the government are not going to be providing every single person (because everyone will need to be registered should they ever get on a boris bike they will need to put their registration jacket on so will need to carry it at all times) a nice bit of Castelli/Assos/Rapha kit. Absolutely fucking not it's not going to happen. FWIW I hate cyclists that give the rest of us a bad name but dressing the rest of us up like 5 year old kids on a school trip isn't going to help, as dickheads gonna dickhead regardless. Same as dickheads dickhead in their cars that have number plates. They will just clone them or remove them like they do with cars.

You are just not willing to entertain an actual discussion on the practicalities and barriers to your proposal, other than deciding everyone who thinks your idea is silly only thinks it is silly so they can go around committing crimes when that is blatantly not the case. This is ignoring the overall sledgehammer to crack a nut concept behind it because we can't even deal with the actual killers, cars and murderers, in this country let alone waste time investigating a cyclist who you think rode too close to you on a shared use path.

“Once a few dozen get a few points on their licen and a fine, watch what happens for the better“

cause that works so well with the 407,499 speeding tickets issued per year. Nobody ever speeds in a car anymore, you are so right OP. That’ll show them.

It's indisputable that pedestrianism is involved in most crimes that happen world wide so let's just push the boat out and tag everyone now

dressing the rest of us up like 5 year old kids on a school trip isn't going to help

It wasn't that long ago that school trips managed without hi-vis gilets. Your school uniform made it clear what group you were supposed to be part of, rather than every kid in a zoo all wearing the same jackets.

I don’t support the OP’s position on licence plates. But this is an odd argument. If fines and prosecutions don’t stop speeding, why don’t we abandon those as well?

Many - maybe nearly all - speeding offences are recorded against drivers when there’s been no harm caused. Many are purely technical, automated and difficult to justify.

Why should those things not apply to cyclists’ offences? I have agreed with a pp that we really need more police around to catch and deal with bad drivers and bad cyclists.

It’s the ‘cyclists can never be at fault’ mentality that I have a problem with.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/holborn-cyclist-death-transport-bosses-intersection-b949337.html
This paediatrician would still be alive if she'd jumped the red light that morning. Just think how many lives she will no longer help or save.

A woeful and fundamentally flawed and feeble argument,

The speeding tickets are dished out as there will always be a percentage of lawbreakers. The numbers you provided which I will take at face value demonstrate lawbreakers can be traced in the vast majority of cases

However, lawbreaking cycle riders have an almost ZERO chance of being caught as the lack of easily identifiable numbers on their bike or on their hi-vis. Looks like you are just one of the many here who have shot themselves in the left foot and are anti-safety rules.

No one but no one has admitted here the real reason why many don't want an easily Identifiable number as mentioned above. Looks like you are supporting those that jump red lights etc, etc and give the majority of bike riders an awful press.

@DistingusedSocialCommentator you're being ridiculous.

Have you ever known any motorist be caught for speeding by someone reporting his/her registration plate? No. It just doesn't happen. People get caught for speeding by cameras or by police. Not by fellow motorists reporting them.

I still want to know what a Leeming is

I think on three occasions I've fallen off my bike as pedestrians stepped out into the road without looking, nowhere near pedestrian crossings.

I propose that all pedestrians should wear high vis jackets at all times.

Hell, why don't we wear high vis at all times, even at home? Can't be too safe.

Are you for real? Traffic light cams, speed cams, car dash cams and cycle riders videos report many daily to the cops and most get prosecuted and that is a fact.

There are many push bike riders YouTube where at times they video drivers using a mobile phone and reporting them and making illeagle turns etc, right so. However, when one was challenged by a pedestrian as to why the riders were not reporting cycle riders, one said "they need to have a number plate to do that" YES REALLY!!

Out of the thousands of cycle riders that jump the red lights daily and or ride on pavements where it is not allowed and or nearly knock over pedestrians at crossings, how many out of the thousands get caught? What the heck do you think that is

Next time, please do make some an effort into your argument that favours cycle riders not having any easily identifiable regr/etc

Cyclists on the path with their helmets make me laugh, theyve got all their protection, dont want to go on the road, got the helmet on, but couldnt care less about pedestrians.
Wheres the pedestrians protection from them?
If you dont feel safe enough on the road, then walk, or walk with your bike until you feel safe.
Another thing about cycling on paths is shop doorways etc. A person can step out, or a child could run out and slap bang into a child and knock them flying possibly even kill them. Its so dangerous. Most people dont even think of that.

What will a cyclist on the path say when another cyclist knocks their child over who has come running out of a shop? Will they say thats ok because i do the same thing? No they will be fuming and annoyed.
The path needs to be a safe place for pedestrians/children/elderly to walk on. Not worry if a cyclist is going to be up their backside.
Ive seen cycle lines abroad but cyclists werent sticking to the lanes so no point in that.

Indeed a fact and as a driver, dozens of times I've had to take evasive action that almost resulted in another vhecle crashing into our and we damage our car o hard breaking when people like that often on their mobile phone just step out in front of cars. I agree and have said it that pedestrians feel the rules of the highway don't refer to them, the ignorance is shocking

Many on this thread are ignorant to the facts when crossing a road/junction/cross and their obligation to the highway code of conduct - read it I have posted it several times in the thread.

@DistingusedSocialCommentator you quoted my post but I don't think you actually read it. I specifically said SPEEDING and I also said that people are caught by cameras, not by random drivers reporting their registration plate.

Also, as many people have said, speed limits don't apply to bicycles. Plus with the best will in the world, most cyclists cannot do 30mph. I certainly can't.

Be honest, OP. Have you ever driven above the speed limit?

"dozens of times"

No you haven't. Let's be honest.

I think OP needs to get back under their bridge and stop watching talktv

Nope.

dont take my figure at face value, it’s here https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/enforcement#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20speed%20limit,before%20the%20pandemic%20(138%2C447).

secondly those are the ones that are caught. I think it’s pretty well known that cameras do reduce speeding. Ie some people will speed regardless of the dander it poses if they think they won’t be caught. Also I spoke to a group of ten school mums who were discussing being sent on a speeding awareness course and how shocking it was, all but one admitted to continuing to speed. Now, that’s shocking to me. They know they could kill someone but their convenience/lateness still means they take the risk because they don’t believe it will happen to them.

if you read my early post you’ll see that I do think dangerous behaviour should be prosecuted. I actually support prosecution of cyclists that ride too fast around pedestrians, through zebra crossings etc.

The breaking red lights is a bit more nuanced as I don’t routinely break red lights myself, (and haven’t in ten years) but there is one junction near me where it’s definitely safer to do so due to the sequencing which I used to travel all the time so yes, i went ahead on red on that one because otherwise cars came up at speed behind me, not having time to see me coming from the left. It wouldn’t have been immediately obvious to anyone else I was doing it because not to do so was dangerous, they might have thought I was just one of those cyclists.

So I think this needs to be examined further. If I do break a light I will do it slowly with more vulnerable road users - usually pedestrians in mind.

And I’m the same about pavement cycling (and towpaths) As a competent adult in most cases there should be no need to cycle on a pavement. But I’ve done it myself when accompanying my small child as a painted on cycle lane offers him no protection from close passes. Now he’s older I cycle on the road with him but when he’s by himself and I can’t protect him by positioning to prevent close passes I tell him to cycle in the pavement for a short section of his school journey (the bit with no cycle infrastructure at all and crazy school run traffic, doors opening etc) , technically of course it’s breaking the law.

But as long as he does it knowing pedestrians have priority at all times and they may be hearing or sight impaired, and he’s not going too fast or too close then I don’t see the harm and honestly it’s not an issue, he’s not presenting more of a danger than a kid on a scooter.

you are acting like the vast majority of cyclists behave aggressively and have no insurance, no regard for others and that’s simply not true. Cyclists well know if they come off their bike in a collision they are losing skin.

I see far more red light breaking motorists daily and an astonishing number of drivers on their phones/not signalling and close passing. The risk they present to others is far, far greater. So if you want to keep people safe, that’s where any resources needs to be spent.

i don’t want to break the law, but in the rare instances I have I’m increasing my safety and aware of the safety of those around me. It’s an infrastructure issue. And I’m third party insured, if I did hit a pedestrian, and hurt them. I’m covered. I never have. But a pedestrian did cause me an injury and guess what, I got nothing, they weren’t insured, didn’t have any ID etc.

by the way as a driver I never had a speeding ticket, points, so much as a parking fine. Because I was painfully aware of the risk I posed to others in my heavy car, just not worth endangering someone’s life because I was late/ inconvenienced.

you’ll find that some people will take risks regardless of their mode of transport and wouldn’t you rather they weren’t in a car where the chances of them hurting or milking someone are simply greater due to simple laws of physics.

put simply it’s also about resources, your proposals will not increase safety. If you want to increase pedestrian safety then dealing with poor driver behaviour and providing proper cycle infrastructure will do that. Pedestrians are still at more risk from people driving cars than cyclists. That’s an actual fact. Despite cars having increased safety features.

However I suspect you are not interested in logical argument. You’ve been given plenty.l and you’re just doubling down on your lazy tropes.

Oh and can you provide the stat that backs up lawbreakers can be traced in the vast majority of cases- how many people speed versus the number of penalties issued that shows the vast majority? Bet you cannot