Even more cyclists now breaking the law

[DistingusedSocialCommentator]

Most drivers and pedestrians will be aware of this as many have seen or been victims of a cycle rider.

Watching Talktv this morning there was a lady who had lost her mother due to an e-scooter rider on the pavement. The show had a lawyer on talking about what I agree with, IE cyclists are very hard to identify if they get away from an accident.

E-scooters we all know are against the law unless provided for by your local council in central London. Several times over the years, me and the family have had close calls with them on pavements and parks as they zoom down, you cant hear them and they often dress in all black clothing.

Push bike riders are travelling faster and faster as many more have those battery packs on them

With the introduction of 20mph zones in vast areas of London, even more, push bike riders are now breaking the law, EG travelling well over 20mph in a 20mph and passing slower cars travelling at 20mph We are all aware how some push bike riders have ignored the rules for years, EG jump red lights, ignore pedestrians on crossings, cause accidents and walk of or rise off and now, much more able to break the speed limits off 20mph with almost 100% impunity and some that at red lights get o the pavement and cross a red light that way or some just ride on pavements

For the record, note, Its some cyclists not all but we have all seen them more so as going to work, or dropping off children at schools the speed of some of these riders

The Talktv debate also talked about those who kill people while riding a push bike/scooter, I think they said the maximum prison sentence was two years (I may be wrong) but the laws needed vast improvements.

This had been talked about a lot before but nothing happened.

AIBU proposes that all cyclists have number plates/easily identifiable markings, all have insurance, all have a bell and lights, and all wear a helmet and hi-vis jacket (This would in my judgment make many more riders more responsible for their actions and our roads/pavements safer for all)

The police need to be more proactive on e-scooter riders. However, as cyclists are almost impossible to identify, my proposal as above will aid the police and hopefully, modify the dangerous behaviours of those cyclists that are now regularly breaking the law, EG, travelling at more than the speed allowed, jumping red lights, putting pedestrians at risk on crossings and pavements.

Yet again, you re not listening, broadcast mode only.

You ve not responded with how you would pay for a registration authority nor how you would attach a large plate to a bicycle not fitted with a strong supportive metal frame, which is the vast majority of bikes or how a plate would be fitted to the front of the bike.

Hi Viz ? So whilst cycling over Dartmoor in Summer, you want cyclists to wear a plastic coat....

Children on bikes?

As for the deaths of children, approx 300 are killed by motorists each and every year but you focus only on cyclists.

Police cannot find 90% of drivers who drive away after hit and runs.....

If it were practical and necessary, why haven't other countries introduced your ideas?

OK I ADMIT IT IT'S ALL A DEVIOUS PLAN FOR CYCLISTS TO TAKE OVER EARTH, ONE PEDESTRIAN AT A TIME

We would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for that damned licensing system...

Steady on friend - we are only talking about making it possible to catch law-breaking cycle riders via a simple and practical solution, IE have easily readable ID number

Because the cost/benefit analysis for ID/number plates mean that it’s unworkable and prohibitively expensive. It simply isn’t enough of a public danger to warrant the investment but increasing cycling is a huge public benefit. Investment in promoting cycling generates a 5:1 return in ease of congestion/pollution and health benefits so anything which puts a barrier to that is counter productive. We want to make it easier to cycle not harder. Every person on a bike takes someone off the road in a car or public transport which we’ll all agree are often overcrowded.

Our family is now a year car free, regularly use our bikes for all day to day needs. As it goes we are all third party insured on our bikes. Many cyclists are, this assumption that we’re all mowing down pedestrians uninsured just isn’t true. In fact the time I ended up in hospital it was a pedestrian that caused my accident. He stepped on the cycle lane, looking at his phone, in order to avoid him it was me that ended up concussed, grazed and with torn clothes.

E-scooters are not bikes. There is no speed limit for cycling, but motor assisted bikes are speed limited by law due to the weight and potential for harm in a collision.

Cars are far more dangerous and injure/kill more people on a daily basis..only about 1 person every two years is killed by someone riding a bike as opposed to around 5 A DAY by people driving cars. Three are approx 1m uninsured drivers in the UK, so if you want regulation to make pedestrians (and cyclists) safer then you need to start with cars. Much tougher sentencing and fines.

I agree souped up illegal delivery bikes are a menace and these are regularly seized but we could legislate the companies pay the workers properly/insist on speed limited e-bikes. This would make everyone a lot safer and I would welcome it.

to other PPs - My DH has an e-bike, it’s not cheating either, it meant he doesn’t arrive to work all sweaty and could tow our elderly 35kg dog in his trailer, towing 60kg in total which would be hard going on a standard bike.

i regularly do the shopping on my standard bike, using panniers. DS can bring his kit bag, flute and school bag easily to school using a pannier rack and far quicker to get to school that way.

Bikes are fab and you are coming across as pretty combative with the usual cyclist bashing tropes. The fact is we all need to share public spaces and demonising one group is just silly. You want to look at people with flagrant disregard for others’ safety you will find it regardless of the mode of transport- a lot of people in a car will often diminish the danger they cause to others - only doing +5 above/was in a hurry when speeding, only there for a minute when parked illegally. Didn’t see you there/you’re not in hi-vis when driving looking at their phone so therefore not actually doing the checks. Very common. But difference is they actually could easily kill someone doing that. Me on my bike, even if I rode recklessly, more likely to kill my self. And we are well aware of that as cyclists.

@Absolutely45

You said
""If it were practical and necessary, why haven't other countries introduced your ideas?

It's because of comments like yours that follow and not take the lead is the reason we are where we are in England

In my family, we often take the lead as I did at work. I rarely follow as I'm no Leeming. Taking the lead is very satisfying and helpful, trust me.

Someone has to take the lead!!!

You’re not one of the many habitual cyclist red light ignorers then. I commend you.

Drivers sometimes say that breaking the speed limit was justified for safety or “it was 3am, there was nothing about”. Do you give them the same latitude?

The kids in bikes thing isn’t just about car drivers. It’s about cyclists too. As a pp’s ROSPA stats show, failing to take notice properly is the fault of cyclists in 45% of serious accidents involving cyclists.

There are also plenty of fault free accidents.

And even accepting that the greater threat is from cars, why would you expose a child to that risk anyway? It is a bit offensive for cyclists to promote this and then say that the cyclist has no responsibility.

I'll bite... Where on my light weight carbon fibre road bike would you like me to fit a number plate large enough to be readable from a suitable distance, that does not impact the ability to use the bicycle nor add significantly to the carefully engineered aerodynamic drag that makes a very large difference in cycling efficiency and thus strain on the legs and lungs. Would I only need it on the road? What about in the velodrome or at the MTB trail centre (you know, those dedicated places for cycling...). Of course a number plate in the traditional sense is impractical. Race number type solutions may exist but these are not readable from the rear, are small so probably also not readable from a distance, and mount where you would otherwise mount a light, so pick and choose your battles... Also how would you do multiple bike households, do you do the bike or the individual? What if the kids share a bike or someone buys a second/third/7th bike? How do you do the boris bikes/santander bikes?

I already have a driving licence/ID, my bike frame number is registered to me via my bike insurance, and I am just as identifiable using the public CCTV network etc as someone who stabs someone on the high street is in the very very unlikely event I plough my bike into someone and kill them and ride off. I notice you have not suggested all scrotes have a number plate on their balaclava, even though there have been more stabbings here recently than people hit by bikes.

Incidentally most cyclists have insurance anyway, as it's dirt cheap, is included with british cycling/cyclingUK etc memberships, and even if they don't have dedicated insurance most home insurance also covers 3rd party liability. I think drivers tend to rattle on about insurance because like that fictitious road tax they see it as another massive 'fee' they have to pay to use the roads and they are jealous that cyclists don't have to by law. Bike insurance costs as little as £10 a month for an average mid range carbon fibre road bike, and it covers new for old replacement if your bike gets nicked as long as you have a suitable lock, so you don't even have to argue up the value or fabricate whiplash like you do with car insurance to enable you to replace your kit. So few cyclists have to claim on insurance and the claims are small that it doesn't have the costs and penny pinching of motor insurance. I drive a car as well. I pay more PER MONTH for my car insurance than I do PER YEAR for my bike, and I have 18 years no claims so I know that car insurance and VED is annoying and I'd rather not pay it for the poor value it's shown me, but doesn't mean that making it compulsory for everyone else is a smart solution.

Also a few more myths for you... it is perfectly possible to ride a legal e-bike over 15.5mph and that doesn't mean it's chipped or illegal, it means the rider can put sufficent power down without the assistance of the motor. The bike is not limited, the motor assistance element is. This is easy on many e-road/e-gravel bikes for a competent cyclist. The power an e-bike adds is less than the power I can generate for an hour with my own legs, but even if you add the two together and assume that is the max power the bike can output, this is still less by some way than the power a male professional cyclists can put out.

Speed limits don't apply to pedal cycles, as you are not required to have a speedometer. Holding 20mph is reasonable for a fit cyclist, but is challenging up hill.

Some lights are weight sensored, and these don't trigger for bikes, so eventually you give up and go through, otherwise you have to sit and wait for a car to turn up. This happens when junction signalling is based on rush hour traffic but that doesnt exist at 6am on a sunday morning, and as someone above has said, getting set off earlier makes it safer. Many cyclists learn the change sequence at regular lights and roll off when they see the one before go red to avoid this. I'm not saying this is right but it is often safer because the drivers don't have patience at the lights to allow the rider to build momentum using all their 0.3BHP legs rather than their 200BHP SUV. Building in bike lights to the traffic lights that go earlier like some in London do and most in Belgium do would solve a lot of this.

Of course there will be a percentage of cyclists who are twats, because that is representative of the percentage of the country who are twats. The same percentage of drivers will be twats which is going to be a bigger raw number as there are more drivers to start with as well but I never see calls to re-test every driver every 3-5 years because some should really no longer have licences...

The most essential reason that cyclists don't need a licence plate is that they can use the road by right. Anyone can take a bike onto the road.

It is only motorised vehicles which need a licence and therefore a licence plate.

The OP is ignoring a myriad of reasonable, thoughtful responses as to why it's not viable for bikes to have registered identification in the way that cars do.

I would just add the obvious points that cars are far more deadly than cycles in their potential to injure, and that cyclists are literally saving the planet by choosing a pollution-free mode of transport.

And far be it from me to be pedantic, but the basic spelling error in the OP's username doesn't inspire confidence either.

Many car drivers seem to get around with little knowledge of the Highway Code. Indeed the OP herself posted a different thread about how she hates having to give way to pedestrians crossing at junctions because impatient drivers might hit her.

The OP still hasn't explained how her laws are going to be enforced on children.

Like:

1. My DD who was cycling on a normal bike aged 3
2. My neighbour's kid who cycles aged 10 who has started going out on her own
3. The school kids aged 11/12 who cycle to school and around the local area in groups or on their own.
4. The newspaper boys and girls who cycle to do their jobs aged 13-15

Some of these cycle on the pavement as they can't be seen if they cycle on the road.

Incidentally there are kids aged 11-17 who steal Lime and other hire bikes in my area to cycle around. However they cycle on the road because they are trying to go as fast as possible.

Registration for cyclists will never, ever happen in the UK and nobody should want it to happen.

The more cyclists on the roads, the better, for EVERYONE, including motorists. Putting barriers, either monetary or via beaucracy, is stupid.

OP, assuming for one moment that it is possible to put a registration plate on a bike, how will that help?

This morning I drove for 2 hours along a mixture of dual carriageway 70mph roads and B roads that had limits of 30 - 60.mph.

On every single type of road I was overtaken by a driver breaking the speed limit. Did I somehow memorise all those number plates and then phone the police to report them?

Of course I didn't. Even if I had, the police couldn't have done anything as its just my word.

The same is true of your ludicrous proposal. You're driving at 20mph in a 20 zone and suddenly loads of cyclists fly past you, clearly breaking the speed limit. They must be doing at least 22mph! Somehow you're going to capture all their registration plates mentally and report them?

Somehow I don't think so.

By the way, what's a "Leeming" ?

Please stop the defeatest rant " Is is impractical£ - NO its NOT.
If we looked at everything like that nothing would get done and that is a fact

Let's have a look at your costings then.

There is no other reason whatsoever

I don't want to live in country where every single time a cyclist gets on their bike they must by law have a massive number printed on a hi vis. In order to be effective this would need to be very vigorously enforced otherwise it would be pointless and I don't want such a costly and draconian system, just to appease people with silly ideas.

You are really weird because you are presumably reading but obviously not understanding.
You can say all you like what a great idea it is, but it still won't work...
Here's another thought for you: There will be dozens of cyclists in my local (student) town tonight cycling without lights. They would not be wearing ID either. You can't ID people not wearing ID, and the more enforcement you propose, the less likely people will be to wear ID. I'm exhausted with this stupidity. The only country with compulsory cycle ID is North Korea. End of.

Can you imagine what Cambridge would look like if this was passed and enforced?

😂

She never answered about what she would do with kids.

Nor with stolen bikes.

Seems the OP isn't aware with hire bikes so the likes of Santander, Lime, Human Forest, etc it is known who has hired the bike at a particular time but it is still damn near impossible to get the culprit reprimanded.

Amazing how road rage feeds through into text.

Meet Mr. Wheeler. Seem familiar?

Lol!

I'd like to know how you think setting up a live registration database for the UK's 8m regular cyclists (excluding children) is simple and practical?

I realise you are "trying" to be a MN Jeremy Clarkson type with controversial views but you really are failing to grasp the fundamental flaws in your ideas.

It is neither practical nor simple though.

Actually an accurate Clarkson then.

The Dutch have taken the lead on road safety. They do it very well, the lowest pedestrian fatality rate in the EU. Guess what, you virtually never see a Dutchman wearing a helmet and you frequently see kids in the bucket of a bakfiets. You certainly don't see a registration plate on a bike.

Isn't Leeming a village in Yorkshire?

That whole 'taking the lead' speech, reminds somewhat of farage

Your family sounds like a joy - do you all go around "leading" people with your batshit ideas?