To feel at a loss about my bullying boss

[SquashedSquashess]

I have a boss who frequently makes me and other members of our team cry with their belittling comments about our work.

As general examples, they will often give instructions that, when carried out, they will say they didn’t give and that the work is wrong. Or they will not brief on a procedural requirement, and when it is not done, say that it’s obvious.

Feedback usually consists of “why have you done this” or “think about what you actually need to do”. Vague and not constructive.

I have noted 4-5 dates and reasons this boss has reduced me to tears in the last 3 years, as well as some of her belittling comments. Naively, I haven’t noted them all because I originally hoped things would improve if I just knuckled down and got on with things.

Last week I met with this boss and a colleague to review a piece of work. They asked “do you actually think your work is right when you give it to me?” and then spoke over or dismissed each time I tried to explain the approach and reasoning behind the piece of work. For the entire 45 minute meeting, I was on the edge of bursting into tears (nostrils flaring, lip wobbling, probably red as I felt quite warm) and it took all my energy to hold myself together. It was humiliating to be made tearful in front of another colleague and required to continue with the meeting.

My husband and my mum have both said this boss’ behaviour is bullying and I should make a complaint or go for constructive dismissal. This boss is a Director of the company, so I’m not sure HR would really help. I applied for 2 jobs on 1st January after deciding I can’t put up with this boss any longer, both of which I’m currently interviewing for.

Just interested in the experience and advice of other MNers, as I feel at a loss about whether to stand up for myself or quietly leave

Just leave. HR is there to make sure the company doesn't end up in court. They aren't there for you.

Sounds very unreasonable to me but I think it's very unlikely you will get anywhere with an accusation of bullying if this person is a director.
Although it's unfair I think I would get out of there too.

i think your post is too vague. You crying could be someone being horrible to you, or it could be you overreacting/worried about life outside work. What exactly has your manager said on those occasions?

It is a manager’s job to give you feedback and it seems like you feel heavily criticised. Have you ever spoken to them bout communication ie what works for you, and what does not work for you?

dp wish I'd have known that how very true that is 😊

I had a boss who bullied me. I kept a log of things that happened along with any proof.

I got another internal role, then eventually left the business and sent the log to HR. The manager was pooled in a restructure at the time and they made sure she didn’t get a role.

I would just leave. Constructive dismissal is a long process. Maybe if you get offered another job, highlight the issue to HR so they are aware. It may enlighten them in the future if the company goes on to have a higher staff turnover.

Yes but it doesn’t mean the manager always gives it effectively or correctly. Or isn’t a bully. I’ve been there.

I feel very sorry for you, having an unkind boss is awful and has such a big impact on your well-being and confidence, your boss sounds like someone who enjoys using their power to humiliate people and if that’s the case no intervention from HR will ever change that. I think for constructive dismissal you’d have to stay on in your role long enough to go through the grievance procedure and it would be stressful for longer.

Really good luck with your interviews! I hope you get offered a new role elsewhere. You’ll feel amazed if your next boss is nice and reasonable! Sometimes standing up for yourself is as simple as choosing to remove yourself from an no win situation.

It’s a difficult one. She sounds awful, I would probably ask the meetings are formally recorded with HR present in future and ask for an improvement plan so that you can address any performance issues. That way you will have a detailed record of what you need to do and your work will be wvidence you are achieving. They are being vague which no one can be expected to improve from. But ultimately keep looking for another job.

Yeah OP learning that HR are not on ur side is something I learnt the hard way. They r there to protect the company and if ur boss is a director you won't stand a chance. Keep applying and leave as soon as u can.

I agree with others who've said to get out of there as quickly as possible while you have the confidence left to do so. It's awful to hear how you are being treated but the power imbalance sounds unlikely to change.

Organisations are full of these powerful bullies. They are too senior to have to address their failings and I think a lot of brutal people get appointed because there is so much macho bullshit in the workplace despite all the sham pretence of the opposite.

But more importantly than anything else - it is important to know this now and for all time: HR are not there for you. They're there to act like they are but they are the henchmen of the bullies in 10/10 cases in my experience. Spectacularly craven cowards.

But there may, of course, be exceptions- I just haven't met one.

Why do people throw around “HR protects the company” like it’s a mind-blowing statement? What were your expectations of HR initially? HR just ensure policy and procedures are followed, mitigate risk of litigation, mediate etc. They look at the evidence and the facts, if it’s not there, they can’t do much.

I’d just leave. And I’d be applying for jobs on work time. They’re unhappy with your work anyway so I wouldn’t be worrying about giving them something real to complain about. Let them struggle to train up new staff and have a constant revolving door of team members where nothing ever gets done

Yep, had one like that a few years ago. Started carrying a voice recording pen to the meetings.
When it all came to a head played the recording to HR. Manager was disciplined and quit shortly after.
Never be afraid to stand your ground.

It is horrific bullying. I had a boss like that. I was too scared to say anything as she allocated all my projects and my work was project based, so she could make me 'unemployed' essentially with no kickback. the HR lady heard one of her appalling rants (She did it in front of 50 people!) and I finally got the guts to tell the Director the whole sorry 4.5 year saga. She was not demoted, just kept away from me. She was eventually demoted for bullying (sending one horrid email and pressing reply all, lol) of someone a lot more popular than me. Still worked there though so had to see her every day. I left after suffering a breakdown and have not been able to work since.
Do not be like me. Tell HR right now, go to GP for sick note ( for stress/ workplace bullying) so you don't have go in, give evidence, hand in notice and consider you may go to tribunal for constructive dismissal as she was gravely affecting your MH.
Do not stay there any more. That person is scum of the planet.

Good luck with the other jobs. I'd leave. As pp said HR are there for the company & are not on your side. I've been bullied at work, I ended up having to move, my boss had a ticking off but was unscathed.

I would love to see that person now & give them a piece of my mind. I wish I'd taken the opportunity, when we were alone in the lift or something, to tell them exactly what I thought of them.

Leave and write a shorty review on glassdoor. You can’t win with a bully. Have worked for two. I left

Logically, maybe we throw round the 'HR care' idea because many of us are schooled to think that by HR people. With their doing two day mental health courses and offering a listening, caring ear. Nodding and cake. IME it's sham caring and impossible not to see it as fraudulent when you've been on the receiving end of it.

Apply for a few more jobs. Congratulations on your current interviews. Push forward with those.

It's worth pointing out because a lot of people are under the misapprehension that HR are there to look after the employees interests, when they are actually there to look after the companies interests.

Loads of posts on all sorts of threads say to go to HR etc, when in all liklihood they won't step in!

It depends on the company I suppose, but in my company HR staff are most likely paid less than my managers as they are less senior eg NHS band 3 vs NHS band 7. Therefore HR can’t override a decision my manager has made. So is it a case of posters thinking HR have more power than they actually do?

You could well be right! But I think the main point is to remember they are more likely not working in your interest (as the employee) unless that aligns with the business preferences! I guess otherwise unions wouldn't be needed... although there are definitely arguments that the union are not always entirely working in the employees best interests...

Thank you all for the advice. I think I’ll carry on with my original inclination - get on with job applications, hand in my notice once I’m successful, and provide a run down of all incidents in my exit interview.

I don't know anything about the NHS but in private companies HR absolutely can overide a manager's decision, regardless of grade. If you e.g. want to sack someone, you have to go through a process (issue warnings) first.

yes the example of sacking someone would be the same at most companies - process must be followed and that’s clearly a serious breach of process if it’s not.

I was referencing the decisions managers can make in their remit as a manager that aren’t against guidelines. Eg giving feedback, not being happy with quality of work, their management style, the way they allocate work perhaps - things OP is referencing. HR won’t tell the employee the manager was wrong and override things like that.

Sorry to hear you're going through this - I agree that unfortunately the only way out is to leave, hoped you will get an exit interview for you to state why you're going