DD4 defiance - please help !

[softerplay]

DD4 just turned 4.

She was a very challenging toddler. Lots of tantrums. If anything didn't go her way, she would go absolutely crazy. Every shopping trip was a nightmare. She'd throw herself on the floor. Every time we had to come back in from being out in the garden- she'd go absolutely nuts. Every bath time was a nightmare too. She hated it and would scream her head off when I was washing her hair etc etc. hair drying - another saga. Getting ready in the morning - another saga.

Whilst she started mellowing out a bit when she turned 3 and in many respects is a different child now. She gets dressed and has baths with no issue. She doesn't really have tantrums any more. She generally listens ok at home and when out and about is much easier to manage too.

Nursery have said there are some areas where she's in the emerging category in her ' report ', like listening / understanding / managing her emotions / speaking even.

I think she struggles to take turns a bit and whilst she's a pretty normal for a four year old, I think she's a ' young ' four year old- rather than an advanced four year old.

This week is half term and I'm spending time with her and she has such an attitude ! If I ask her to do anything, she gets straight into defiance mode and stamps her feet on the ground and yells ' NO ' I'm not doing that ! Everything becomes a stand off. I'm not sure how to deal with it. If I get angry etc, she gets angry back and screams in my face.

This morning she didn't want to do something and I stayed calm and it did work. But often she just ignores me. Like when we need to leave the playground she just keeps running off and laughing and saying ' babaabababa ' and sticking her tongue out at me. Yesterday I had to climb into the soft play to get her because she just didn't come out by herself and kept yelling that she wasn't going home...

At home I use time outs if she's being unkind to her sister or not listening - like the other day, she climbed on the kitchen table and started jumping up and down- I asked her to stop.. she continued. She then took a swig of water and spat it all over the table. I said ' No you don't do that ' as I was trying to get her down, she spat water again.

So I put her in time out. But she doesn't care about time out. She happily goes and sits there for as long as needed. She really does not care.

She's going through a bit of a phase I think, but I don't know how to handle it !

Anyone ?

Try time in rather than time out

Also do you give lots of warnings about when it's time to leave? Not in minutes but eg two more goes on the slide, countdowns etc?

Sounds ND to me.

Transitions
Speech
Attention
Demand avoidance
Meltdowns.

Sanctions don’t work for ND. Focus on the good bits and praise/reward

All of those things have really really improved though.

In terms of speech I don't really know if she's ' behind '. She speaks a lot and quite well.

I have a meeting soon to understand why she's been marked in the ' emerging ' category, rather than in the expected category for speech.

I'm not being defensive. It's definitely possible.

But a lot of the meltdowns etc have really improved since she's just grown up a bit. Is that also the case with ND kids ? Do they also just grow out of stuff ?

They change rather than grow out.

When she was very little, having tantrums were her ways of melting down, avoiding demands.

Now she reacts in different ways as she’s a bit older. Hence defiance. It’s all about demand and transition.

My first child was very cooperative and all the standard approaches like stickers and time outs worked on the odd occasion it was needed. My second was a whole different ball game!

I would say first, pick your battles. If there's something that doesn't really matter, don't fight about it. Don't want to put your coat on? Ok, well I'm putting my coat on because it's cold outside (if you can put the coat under the buggy or in your bag in case it's needed then do that).

Never get into an argument with a small child. It's pointless and stressful. Stay calm, ignore, agree. And give yourself more time than you need so you're not adding the stress of being late when your child is having a tantrum.

Avoid giving orders that can be argued with. Make statements. 'lunch is on the table' rather than 'go and eat your lunch'.
Similarly, sometimes it helps to have an abstract rule that isn't coming from you, rather than you telling them to do something. 'TV goes off at 5pm' rather than 'turn the TV off you've watched too much today'.

And also just accept that sometimes you will have to climb the soft play frame and drag a screaming child out Try to just be zen about it, stay calm and remember it won't last forever!

Praise all good behaviour. If she's sitting nicely and eating her food... comment on it..."oh wow, it is so lovely when you sit sensibly and we can enjoy our meal together''. If you're walking round a shop and she's not making a fuss "thank you for walking so nicely with mummy, it makes shopping much easier".

My DD was like this at 4. Very angry and defiant and things would escalate as she would never back down. Masses of positive praise and basically love bombing her (even when I don't feel like it) have worked out to be the best way to get her to cooperate. Shouting didn't work, she would just shout back at you. Also very much picking your battles and having to let things slide. She is much much better now aged 5, her behavior has mellowed plus I know how to handle her better.

Honestly this is also the approach that works best with her. When I'm being too hard arse strict or confrontational with her, it escalates and her behaviour gets worse!

I think she tends to listen to others much more than she listens to me.

I'm hoping that like the other stuff she used to do, she'll also grow out of this phase, as you describe.

She's so much easier than she used to be! She's come a really long way.

Oh and also consequence is the removal of something she really wants (usually screen time or chocolate related) and reward is the opposite of these things. Other consequences or rewards didn't really work. We tried a sticker chart for a while and she got bored of it very quickly.

4 was the absolute worst age for us, sounds like you are going through something very similar.

Yeah I've tried a sticker chart as well. Very quickly lost interest too.

I think 4 is a bit challenging, but NOTHING compares to when she was 2-2.5 years old.

I actually avoided taking her places because it was so bad and not fun at all.

You don't know how many times people stared at us in public for her screaming tantrums. I'm just so used to it now.

The way she is now, is actually a breeze compared to that.

With speech is it her pronunciation? Does she speak in full sentences and use words to explain how she feels?
She needs to have age appropriate consequences e.g. if you won’t come with me at soft play then you won’t have your tablet when we get in or something she enjoys (and keep to it!) you spat water on the table so you need to clean it up and won’t be doing x until you do. Inconvenience her so she doesn’t want to do it again.

I’d also try and have an honest discussion with nursery and try and get their view on what she’s like there. It can be really hard to tackle issues with parents so it’s best for you to ask them outright.

I'm not sure why she's in the emerging category for speech. She was in the expected category for speech in her last report in December.

She speaks quite clearly to be honest. She speaks in full sentences and is able to say if she's happy or sad or angry. She can say her full name and where she lives etc.

I've noticed sometimes she gets shy and speaks quietly when she's trying to explain something more complicated.

She sometimes mixes up he and she or she'll stay stuff like ' at the morning ' rather than in the morning.

We have pretty open lines of communication.

They say she's improving and able to follow the boundaries better etc. sometimes struggles with taking turns and goes off in a huff, that kind of thing.

I'm going to speak to them soon in more detail.

But in general they say she's great and she's headstrong, but they're able to get through to her and she's continuously improving and growing.

By paragraph starting with your half term one:

1. "No, I'm not doing that!" Either - prevent this by making the task more fun - "bet I can race you up the stairs to the bathroom, you will come second! One, two, three...go" or by offering a fixed choice "Time to get your book bag and shoes. Which one shall I get and which one would you like to get?"

Or - if it's serious (eg I'm not putting my seatbelt on") use magic counting "You've got until I count to 3 to get it on, or I will have to be cross. 1....."
Or play her at her own game "No I am not going to put my shoes on" "Fine, I can take you to nursery in your socks. Off we go!" Or down tools yourself "I am not eating my dinner" "well, that's up to you, I am going for a nice sit down in the living room with a cup of tea, see you later".

1. First, give a warning so she has time to do her thing - "Sophie, we will be going to get in the car in 2 minutes....Sophie, 1 minute left.....Sophie, almost time...." if that doesn't work : Call her bluff/ magic counting

"You've got until I count to 3 to be off the equipment or I will have to leave you here. 1.....2.....3! Ok, I will see you later. Shall I tell the lady at the desk to look after you?"

1. Sounds like she's getting overstimulated. Why did you "ask her" to stop? I would have said "No, that's dangerous, get down right now!" and lifted her down. Don't be afraid to lay down the law on occasion. If it's rare that you get cross, it seems to work more when you do. Spitting water - This would be an absolute no. "Sophie, that is very silly and rude behaviour and I do not like it. First, go to your room to calm down. Then you can help me clear up the water." When you collect her from time out you remind her that she was spitting water in a silly way and that is rude manners, and is she ready to help clean up yet? If she says no or laughs, just say "ok" and turn away again. Keep going until she helps clean up then give her a big hug, tell her it was good to help clear up after she made a mistake.

He/she mix up is common at this age.

By the nursery using the term ‘headstrong’ I’d suggest they find her there how you find her at home. She might need some help to manage her emotions and hopefully as she gets older she’ll start to become more in control. Will she be in reception in September?

Yes she's starting reception in September

You might find she matures when she starts school and learns to manage her feelings more effectively as there could be up to 30 in her class, compared to smaller numbers in Nursery.
I think consequences and trying not to react to her might help. For some children any attention is good attention so in a time out might mean she’s enjoying the attention? Hard to know without knowing her.

Look up PDA (often linked with ND) and, whilst I’m not saying it’s what she has, you might find some of the ways to communicate and suitable repercussions might be helpful for you.

I'd recommend the book How to Talk So Little Kids will Listen

I'd go with a combination of time in and ignoring.

So ignore her if she climbs a table and reacts like that when you say get down. Walk away. Take the other dcs and play. Let her see that positive behaviour gets attention.

Couple that with giving her 1:1 time planned in. Talk when you go to soft play about her behaviour when you need to leave. Tell her what time you're leaving before you set off. Tell her that if she leaves sensibly then tomorrow you can X. Show her the rewards for positive behaviours.

Yeah this is good advice. We are out today and she kept trying to play with a girl's iPad ( a communal iPad ) but nonetheless the girl was on it. She tried to play a couple of times, but the girl didn't want to stop playing obviously.

So instead of ' telling her off ' like ' stop that, it's not your turn '. I sort of gently explained that the girl was playing and I ushered her away. She sort of huffed and pulled a face but I managed to bounce her on my knee and tickle her a bit, to distract her and it didn't escalate.
The more in her face and confrontational I get, the more confrontational she gets.

Sounds like you handled it really well. The only thing I would add is at some point trying to gently discuss about how it’s great how she left the other girl to her iPad as it was hers. You could give her an example ‘Sometimes Daddy uses x and I know I want to use it but I don’t snatch it because it’s his just like he doesn’t take my things off me’

Im sure they’ll be the thought that this could antagonise her but it might be she needs situations such as this explaining clearly to her.